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    Irish Life - Gewinner der irischen Bankenkrise (Seite 587)

    eröffnet am 29.11.10 17:56:43 von
    DIE_GERECHTIGKEIT

    neuester Beitrag 15.11.14 18:29:45 von
    Expertchen007
    Beiträge: 7.054
    ID: 1.161.557
    Aufrufe heute: 11
    Gesamt: 672.160


    Beitrag schreiben Ansicht: Normal
    Avatar
    Flocke7815
    schrieb am 11.04.12 21:26:15
    Beitrag Nr. 5.861 (43.026.788)
    Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 43.023.110 von boersenkeks am 11.04.12 10:31:23Du suchst Einschätzungen?
    Schätz doch mal selber!
    Du weißt der Staat ist zu 99,...% dran beteilig
    Der Staat will wahrscheinlich alle Aktionäre los werden!
    Der Staat will keine Neubewertung der Aktien.
    Der Staat will die Bank aufbauen/neu Struktuieren.
    Der Staat wird dann die Bank verkaufen und kassieren.
    Der Staat will nichts abgeben!
    Der Staat will uns los werden!

    Was meinst Du wird der Staat unternehmen um uns los zu werden?
    Ich denke alles!

    Wir werden hier keine Millionäre werden, wenn wir Glück haben kriegen wir hier unseren Einsatz raus!
    Wenn wir Pech haben werden die Aktien ausgestampft und wir kriegen nichts!

    Liege ich da soweit im Einklang mit euch?
    2 Antworten
    Avatar
    Flocke7815
    schrieb am 11.04.12 21:28:53
    Beitrag Nr. 5.862 (43.026.799)
    Wir haben nur einen der z.Z. noch für uns arbeitet und das ist Piotr!

    Was meint Ihr, 10 oder 20 Millionen und der hält sich ab jetzt zurück?

    Ist billiger als uns Geld zu geben?
    Avatar
    boersenkeks
    schrieb am 12.04.12 08:21:10
    Beitrag Nr. 5.863 (43.027.773)
    Zitat von Flocke7815Du suchst Einschätzungen?
    Schätz doch mal selber!
    Du weißt der Staat ist zu 99,...% dran beteilig
    Der Staat will wahrscheinlich alle Aktionäre los werden!
    Der Staat will keine Neubewertung der Aktien.
    Der Staat will die Bank aufbauen/neu Struktuieren.
    Der Staat wird dann die Bank verkaufen und kassieren.
    Der Staat will nichts abgeben!
    Der Staat will uns los werden!

    Was meinst Du wird der Staat unternehmen um uns los zu werden?
    Ich denke alles!

    Wir werden hier keine Millionäre werden, wenn wir Glück haben kriegen wir hier unseren Einsatz raus!
    Wenn wir Pech haben werden die Aktien ausgestampft und wir kriegen nichts!

    Liege ich da soweit im Einklang mit euch?


    Die Einschätzungen suchte hermanng, nicht ich.
    Avatar
    mmafr
    schrieb am 12.04.12 08:30:29
    Beitrag Nr. 5.864 (43.027.810)
    AIB repays €1.5bn to unsecured bondholders

    FIONA REDDAN

    Thu, Apr 12, 2012

    NATIONALISED bank AIB has repaid € 1.5 billion to unsecured bondholders, with investors receiving the full 100 cents in the euro on their investment.

    Issued as part of the bank’s € 30 billion floating rate note programme in 2007, the five-year bond, which is not covered under the Government’s guarantee scheme, was repaid yesterday.

    At its low in February 2011, the bond traded below 75 cents in the euro. At the time, some investors sold out, fearing that they would be forced to take a haircut on their investment. For those who invested at that time, however, their speculative investment has paid off with the Government’s subsequent promise that it will not “burn” any bondholders.

    According to a spokesman for the Department of Finance, the rationale for AIB, which is 99.8 per cent owned by the State, meeting its debt repayments in full yesterday is the same as that which guided the € 1.25 billion repayment by the now defunct Anglo Irish Bank in January.

    “The key thing for Government is to make sure that there’s no loss of confidence in the Irish banking system,” he said, adding that the goal for the Government remained getting a deal on the promissory notes related to Anglo Irish, now the Irish Bank Resolution Corporation. “We wouldn’t want to undermine that process,” the spokesman said.

    Last April, the Central Bank published statistics indicating that the total outstanding senior and subordinated debt for Irish covered institutions was in the order of €64.3 billion, with a quarter of this accounted for by senior unguaranteed unsecured bonds. Since then, this figure has fallen.

    Based on Bloomberg data, AIB has about €14.7 billion to be repaid by the end of 2015, although a spokeswoman for the bank said this figure included covered bonds. The bank assesses its bond exposure – including that of EBSD – at €9.5 billion by 2015.

    Following its repayment in January, IBRC has about €4 billion in outstanding bonds left to repay – €1.8 billion in Government guaranteed notes, which are due to mature during 2012, € 900 million of notes which are scheduled to mature in 2015 and €1.3 billion in unguaranteed medium-term notes which are due to mature during 2012.

    Bank of Ireland’s outstanding debt is of the order of €18.2 billion – €5.1 billion in senior guaranteed bonds; €10.1 billion in senior secured unguaranteed; €2.6 billion in senior unsecured and unguaranteed bonds and €400 million in subordinated bonds.

    According to a spokesman for Irish Life & Permanent, it has about € 5 billion in senior bonds outstanding, with maturity going out to 2015. It has a “minimal” amount of subordinated bonds, as the bulk of these were bought back under the bank’s liability management exercise last year.

    The decision to meet bond repayments continues to generate criticism.

    Independent TD Stephen Donnelly yesterday criticised the move, arguing that the debts were incurred by “professional investors which have no sovereign guarantee and which occurred before the State took control of the bank”. On these grounds, he argued the Government had no “moral obligation” to repay them.

    © 2012 The Irish Times

    http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/finance/2012/0412/122431…

    Das sind gute News für uns. Die Regierung setzt alles dran dass Investoren wieder Vertrauen in Irland kriegen (auch wenn einige dies verständlicherweise nicht gut finden).
    Avatar
    mmafr
    schrieb am 12.04.12 08:38:01
    Beitrag Nr. 5.865 (43.027.843)
    Banks and overspending to top agenda of troika's sixth review

    Expect plenty of images of a stream of officials making the short walk from the Merrion Hotel to the Department of Finance in the Irish media next week.

    Those officials will be the teams from the International Monetary Fund, the European Commission and the European Central Bank, or, as we all know them now, the troika.

    This will be the sixth review by the troika since their arrival at the end of 2010. The previous reviews have largely been uncontroversial affairs, with Ireland managing to meet most of the important targets it was set. We would expect that Ireland will once again meet the requirements of the troika, thus paving the way for further disbursements of funding.

    The targets set out for Ireland on a quarterly basis can be broken down into three distinct areas: (1) structural; (2) fiscal, and; (3) financial.

    On the first, discussions will focus on progress on preparations for the sale of state assets, labour market activation policies, competition policies and progress towards the transfer of water services from local authorities to a regulated water utility. Strides have been made on these issues, albeit at different paces.

    On the public finances, the Department of Finance confirmed last week that the fiscal targets were comfortably met in the first three months.

    After making all of the necessary adjustments to the Q1 figures, the Exchequer primary balance (the cash deficit excluding interest payments) came in at --€2.6bn, relative to a target of --€6.9bn (the target gets adjusted for any unexpected overshoots in tax revenue).

    Even if the €3.1bn promissory note payment was made, the target would have been met comfortably (--€5.7bn versus --€6.9bn).

    Given this performance, is there anywhere that Irish officials may get a wrap on the knuckles? It is likely that public pronouncements by the troika following the review will be similar to the fifth review that "fiscal targets were met with a margin", but there are some elements of expenditure where tough questions will need to be answered by the Irish officials.

    In the first three months of 2012, headline expenditure was €294m higher than expectations (allowing for a reclassification of €207m in PRSI).

    Three departments were guilty of overspending in the first quarter of 2012. Social Protection is 9pc ahead of forecast, Health is 3pc ahead, but the Department for Public Expenditure and Reform is 30pc ahead of the expected profile.

    This sends out all the wrong signals to other departments. This new department was set up because of the enormity of the task of matching revenues with expenditures.

    While it is still early in the year, it is somewhat concerning and very ironic that the department responsible for reining in public spending overall is seeing the largest overspend.

    The most controversial elements of the talks during the troika visit will revolve around the banking sector once again. Troika officials will be interested in the progress on the reorganisation of the banking sector, particularly following the recent acquisition of Irish Life for €1.3bn.

    Further reorganisation of the sector will require the support of the troika, with recent speculation suggesting that the problems of expensive tracker mortgages on the books of state-owned AIB and Permanent TSB could be put into some sort of NAMA-for-mortgages vehicle in IBRC.

    This could also provide a neat solution as the amount of tracker mortgages in the banks is similar to the value of promissory notes.

    Given the difficulty that the Irish government had in agreeing a solution to the €3.1bn payment at the end of last month, don't hold your breath for a broader solution to the banking problems in the latest visit.

    http://www.independent.ie/business/banks-and-overspending-to…

    So, jetzt geht's ans Eingemachte ! Jetzt heisst es Daumen drücken damit die Troika der von Noonan vorgeschlagenen Bereinigung der tracker mortgages zustimmt.
    Wenn das so kommt, dann sieht die Zukubft von TSB wieder viel besser aus.
    Von daher, es stehen spannende Teiten vor der Tür :cool:
    Avatar
    Medium30
    schrieb am 12.04.12 18:46:04
    Beitrag Nr. 5.866 (43.031.790)
    Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 43.026.788 von Flocke7815 am 11.04.12 21:26:15Also da liegst du nicht mit mir im Einklang ! :D

    1) Wenn der staat verkauft dann auch uns mit !
    2) Wir wären wir die Nutzniesser wenn wir die Hypotheken für einen guten Preis nun loswerden!
    3) Ich sehe nun noch keine konkreten Hinweise dafür das der Staat uns raus haben will für 0,00 !
    4) Auch wir haben Rechte und im Insovenzverfahren befinden wir uns noch nicht !

    5) Millonär kannst du hier schon werden - fragt sich nur wieviel einsatz man bereit ist für eine 50/50 Chance ! Nimm an wir sind unsere Sorgen los und haben eine Faire Bewertung bei 10 Cent - sind sagen wir 300% Hau 350k Euro rein und du bist nacher ein frisch gebackener :D:D:D:D

    6) Fang mal an Positiv zu denken - wenn du schon in einer Aktie drin bist - Alles andere ist ja Selbstzerstörerisch - Außer du stehst drauf Aktie zu kaufen um Geld los zu werden :D
    1 Antwort
    Avatar
    Fred83
    schrieb am 13.04.12 08:26:02
    Beitrag Nr. 5.867 (43.033.572)
    man man man ... was für eine qual hier
    Avatar
    mmafr
    schrieb am 13.04.12 08:27:06
    Beitrag Nr. 5.868 (43.033.581)
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/12/ireland-markets-id…

    UPDATE 2-Ireland moves to further limit damage of bank bailout
    Thu, Apr 12 2012

    * Govt bids to keep 30 bln euros of NAMA debt of its books

    * ECB's Asmussen says will look at govt 'tracker mortgage' plans

    * Says strict criteria on replacing bank IOUs with EFSF loan

    By Padraic Halpin and Conor Humphries

    DUBLIN, April 12 (Reuters) - Ireland said on Thursday it is in talks with EU officials to keep 30 billion euros of bank-related debt off its balance sheet while the European Central Bank said it was ready to help Dublin work on proposals to limit the damage from its bank bailout.

    As a fragile economy is making it harder for Dublin to contain its debt spiral, the government has been lobbying to ease the burden of its bank-related debt, brought on by reckless lending during a property boom.

    Dublin had to pump 64 billion euros worth of capital into the banking sector after the property bubble burst and it took 74 billion euros of risky land and development loans off banks' balance sheets.

    To recover the 31 billion euros it paid for the loans, the government created the National Asset Management Agency (NAMA), which conducted much of its business via a special purpose vehicle, allowing its debt to fall outside the government's balance sheet for EU accounting purposes.

    A shift in the agency's ownership structure means more debt could appear on the state balance sheet. But Dublin's finance ministry said on Thursday it was in "ongoing engagement" with Eurostat and was satisfied that NAMA's debts would not be brought on to the government balance sheet.

    Even providing the NAMA debt stays off the government's accounts, Dublin expects its debt burden - driven sharply higher by its bank bailout - to peak at 119 percent of GDP next year, taking it into the same sort of territory occupied by Italy and Greece before Europe's debt crisis began.

    With the economic growth needed to keep that forecast on track far from certain, the government has been pursuing a months-long campaign to ease the burden of its bank-related debt by trying to reschedule payments on 27 billion euros worth of high-interest IOUs issued to prop up two failed banks.

    European Central Bank Executive Board member Joerg Asmussen said the ECB would work with Dublin on these proposals as well as others focused on shifting loss-making mortgages from the country's banks. [ I D :nL6E8FC3GZ]

    "We are ready to work with the authorities pretty soon on this issue," Asmussen told Irish national broadcaster RTE, referring to the burden loss-making "tracker" mortgages are placing on the balance sheets of Irish banks.

    "We will look very carefully if a plan is presented to us. It is an issue that has to be dealt with for the future viability of the banking sector," he said, adding that no concrete proposal had been made.


    STRICT CRITERIA

    Tracker mortgages make up more than 50 percent of Irish banks' residential property loans and although performing, they are not earning due to a mismatch between high funding costs and the low ECB rate which the products track.
    (***Siehe dazu Pfandbrief's vorzügliche Erklärung über die trackers***)

    The government has said it wants to shift trackers from Allied Irish Banks and Irish Life and Permanent unit permanent tsb, in which it holds majority stakes. However, it is not clear whether a deal would also affect Bank of Ireland , in which the government owns a minority stake.

    Irish Bank Resolution Corporation (IBRC), a vehicle winding down the two failed Irish lenders being propped up by the related IOUs, has said it is in talks with the government on the possibility of it buying the tracker loans.

    However Dublin has yet to say how it would move the trackers without forcing further losses on its viable banks or pushing the losses onto the state-owned IBRC, or whether it is willing to pump further capital into the banks to complete the cleanup.

    Asmussen gave a mixed view on the efforts to reschedule the IOU debt, saying that while the ECB would work with the government, the loans and the interest rate paid on them are part of Ireland's bailout programme and should be honoured.

    He said Irish hopes of replacing the so-called 'promissory notes' for loans backed by Europe's temporary bailout fund, the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), would have to meet strict criteria.

    "To replace the promissory notes with support from the EFSF must meet important criteria, including that it should improve the chances of both the state and the banks returning to market-based funding, and of the banks reducing their extraordinary reliance on the Eurosystem," he said.

    While Dublin faces a challenge convincing reluctant creditor countries to allow it use the EFSF, analysts said the government would likely be able to keep the NAMA-related debt off its books, even it has to come up with a new solution to do so.

    "The implications of an accounting reclassification are so severe, one can assume that a solution will be found," Dublin-based Glas Securities wrote in a note.
    Avatar
    Pfandbrief
    schrieb am 13.04.12 10:04:35
    Beitrag Nr. 5.869 (43.034.109)
    However Dublin has yet to say how it would move the trackers without forcing further losses on its viable banks or pushing the losses onto the state-owned IBRC, or whether it is willing to pump further capital into the banks to complete the cleanup.

    Ja. Wie gesagt. Irgendwer macht die Verluste. Entweder die "viable banks", darunter wir, oder IBRC, bzw. Irland. Der Verrechnungspreis ist das wichtige, nicht die Verschiebung an sich.
    Avatar
    Flocke7815
    schrieb am 13.04.12 16:06:44
    Beitrag Nr. 5.870 (43.036.240)
    Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 43.031.790 von Medium30 am 12.04.12 18:46:04Wie soll man hier positiv denken, wenn der Kurs so abrutscht...?

    ein paar Tage mal nicht da und der Kurs ist im Keller, mal sehen wie viele Etagen der Keller hat...
    Schätze wir stehen erst oben im Eingang...

    Jo Mio kann man werden, wenn man eine eingesetzt hat...

    Hier ist der Bunker tot, und ich glaube mittlerweile, das mann hier nur noch Kleingeld rausbekommt!
    Sprich man setzt 100.000 ein wartet dann bis der Kurs um 1Cent steigt und verkauft dann wieder...machen ja viele so...Exp....ist so einer...

    Ich warte jetzt bis ich mein Einsatz raushabe und sage dann hier vielen Dank aber Nein...

    Das wird hier nichts mehr werden...und wenn, dann erst in 10 Jahren...




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