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    Einstieg in Vietnam - jetzt oder nie! (Seite 16)

    eröffnet am 23.09.10 18:47:05 von
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     Ja Nein
      Avatar
      schrieb am 06.01.12 18:32:20
      Beitrag Nr. 89 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.561.499 von XMarket am 06.01.12 18:30:52Chart

      Avatar
      schrieb am 06.01.12 18:30:52
      Beitrag Nr. 88 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.554.124 von ThaiClaus am 05.01.12 13:55:47anbei ist auch ein Chart, der zeigt das die schwergewichtete FTSE VN Komponente wie BVH, MSN und aktuell VIC immer den Kurs vorher von einheimisch nach oben treibt, und ETF am Hochkurs gekauft. Alles haben Kurs-Buchwert Verhältniss von 5 und KGV von 15 bis 17 ... und gehört zu den teuersten Aktien in Vietnam, und ihre Büchern wurden bestimmt alle manipuliert.



      ETF in euro, Vietnam Aktien in tsd VND, eingekreiste Gelb ist die Zeitpunkt wie sie als schwergewicht in FTSE war
      1 Antwort
      Avatar
      schrieb am 05.01.12 15:00:38
      Beitrag Nr. 87 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.554.124 von ThaiClaus am 05.01.12 13:55:47diesen Artikel habe ich schon mal im August gepostet - der Link geht aber nicht mehr auf .......

      A Market Too Far?

      Written by Cris Sholto Heaton - March 15, 2011

      The Vietnamese stock market has had a rollercoaster ride over the last few years, with a spectacular bubble in 2007 followed by an equally spectacular bust. Today, the market trades on a price/earnings ratio of less than 10, making it look inexpensive. With the country’s economic policymakers finally getting to grips with the necessary reform programmes, there are signs that international investors are once again warming to “the next China”.

      When compared to the previous boom in 2007, investors can now access Vietnam via exchange-traded funds. And Vietnam’s local fund managers say this is an increasingly popular option, a view borne out by the data: the two foreign ETFs – db x-trackers FTSE Vietnam and Van Eck Market Vectors Vietnam – have more than doubled assets under management since the middle of last year. But do users of these ETFs really understand what kind of market they’re getting into?

      To see why there may be cause for concern, let’s take an overview of the Vietnam market. The country has two bourses: one in Ho Chi Minh City, which handles listed equities only, and one in Hanoi, which handles bonds, listed equities and over-the-counter securities on a platform called Upcom. Both are relatively young; the Ho Chi Minh board was established in 2000, while trading in Hanoi began in 2005 and the city’s exchange only obtained official status two years ago. Unsurprisingly, given this short history, the Vietnamese market has shown the classic frontier market pattern: a boom and bust shortly after start-up in 2001 and another boom and bust in 2006-2008.

      But the market has grown very quickly, which is probably testament to an entrepreneurial, capitalistic culture in Vietnam, regardless of the country’s notional socialism. Today, there are around seven hundred traded companies, more than in many older Southeast Asian markets. These are a mix of partly privatised state-owned enterprises (SOEs) and private firms. Financials are the dominant sector, with a large weighting in industrials and resources as well.

      Local investors seem to be mostly short-termist and devoted to trading, rather than the long-term holding of stocks. But there are around a hundred funds investing in Vietnam, most catering to foreigners: the total includes several London-listed investment trusts, with most of the rest being unlisted closed-end funds, unit trusts and hedge funds. Around a quarter of the foreign funds are based in Korea, reflecting the fact that Korea is a major source of foreign direct investment into Vietnam (and perhaps a provider of unhelpful advice; Vietnam specialists blame recent problems with indebted and unwieldy SOEs on attempts to follow the conglomerate model of Korean chaebol, such as Samsung and Hyundai).

      Many of the foreign fund managers have been operating in the country for up to two decades. They made private equity investments before the appearance of local stock exchanges offered more opportunities, particularly in the privatisations of SOEs. And the head start gained by other investment funds is where the real problems for ETF investment begin. ETFs are relatively late entrants to the Vietnamese equity market: the db x-trackers FTSE Vietnam ETF was launched in January 2008, while the Van Eck Market Vectors fund only started operating in November 2009.

      Vietnam is better than many emerging markets as far as foreign accessibility to local investments is concerned. The country doesn’t have the tough quota limits of China’s A share market, or even India’s restrictions on only allowing approved foreign institutions. But Vietnam’s government imposes strict limits on foreign ownership: 30% for banks and 49% for other companies.

      This creates capacity constraints for the most recent arrivals amongst foreign investors, because the managed funds have already taken up the available shares in the most attractive large companies. Take Vinamilk, a dairy and soft drinks firm, for example; this is viewed as the best-run large cap on the market and is one of the largest positions in most foreign funds. The foreign limit is completely filled, with just a few thousand available shares changing hands per day. Consequently, the ETFs have no ability to get into an outstanding consumer play that trades on a p/e of nine. Vinamilk is also excluded from their indices that ETFs follow.


      Or take financials. The managed funds focus mostly on private banks that they believe are well-run and have no liabilities from the country’s troubled SOEs, such as Sacombank, Asia Commercial Bank and … “I wouldn’t go any further down that list,” says one manager when prompted for another name. These two have an available foreign quota of 0.87% and 0% respectively, according to Bloomberg data.

      So the ETFs have to get financial exposure through Baoviet, an insurer, Bank for Foreign Trade and Bank for Industry and Trade (known as Vietin Bank). The fact that these have foreign quotas available – despite the two banks having just 10% free in the first place since the government still owns 90% - tells you everything about what active managers think of them.

      But the problems go beyond not owning the best stocks. Although Vietnam has grown quickly in terms of number of companies, on other scores this is still a small market. Once you get down to the 50th largest company, you’re already below US$100 million in market capitalisation. As far as liquidity is concerned, the 70th most active stock in the market has averaged less than US$100,000 in daily trading volume over the last six months. You can see the challenges faced by those charged with building a balanced and tradeable index.

      Thus the 33-stock FTSE Vietnam index tracked by the db x-trackers ETF contains a handful of heavily weighted larger stocks – real estate firms Vincom and HAGL account for a combined 27% of the fund, for example. At the other extreme, there are a number of small positions in relatively small stocks that have enough liquidity to make the cut: for example, towards the bottom the index includes Southern Rubber, which ranks 105th by size and has traded an average US$87,000 per day in the last six months. Van Eck’s proprietary 31-stock Vietnam index hasn’t had to go quite so far down the list, but still includes firms such as steelmaker Hoa Sen, with a market cap of US$70 million and an average daily value traded of US$335,000, while in the large cap space Baoviet is 11% of the basket.

      The presence of these small stocks obviously creates a potential problem for ETFs when moving in and out of the market. “Local investors aren’t stupid,” says one manager. “They know what stocks the ETFs have to buy and they get ahead of them.” And a cursory look at local trading patterns suggests this may be true.

      Bloomberg data shows a sharp increase in trading in the ETFs in early December – which was accompanied by absolutely explosive increases in trading activity on some of the smaller stocks in their indices. For example, Kim Long Securities, a component of the Van Eck fund, which had typically turned over less than US$2m a day, passed US$10m a day on several occasions. Similar patterns can be seen in Tan Tao Investment, Thu Duc Housing, Vien Dong Pharma – an especially tiny component of the FTSE Vietnam – and many others.

      Indeed, handling the sharp rise in activity seems to have been very challenging for the Van Eck fund, an in specie ETF, or one that has to own the securities in the underlying index (by contrast, db x-trackers’ Vietnam fund, like the rest of the firm’s range, uses synthetic replication, giving it somewhat greater flexibility). The premium to NAV in Van Eck’s ETF blew out to as much as 17% at one point in December and has continued to run well above average, registering most recently at 5%. The db x-trackers ETF has also suffered from significant tracking error, albeit on a smaller scale - at present it trades on a discount of 3.75% in London.

      In fairness, Van Eck foresaw the liquidity problem and has done its best to minimise it – but in a way that may surprise investors who don’t read the small print: 30% of its portfolio is listed outside the country. And the idea that many of them represent a true Vietnam play seems a stretch: stocks such as Canada’s Talisman Energy, the UK’s Premier Oil, Malaysian infrastructure and real estate group Gamuda, Thailand’s Charoen Pokphand Foods and India’s Oil and Natural Gas Corporation may operate in Vietnam but are scarcely heavily geared to it. Yet all five are in the ETF’s top 15 holdings.

      It’s obviously too early to say that Vietnam is unsuitable for ETF investing. But this is a market that nobody would view as efficient and where fundamentally oriented investors should be able to add long-term value, if they can do so anywhere. Additionally, their actions have meant that ETF investors often can't access the most attractive companies and are sometimes picking up the ones that no-one wants. So it seems questionable whether ETFs are really the solution for long-run investment.

      From shorter-term trading, it’s clearly an issue if your fund is likely to be front-run into its positions. And if an ETF’s attempts to get in or out are leading to noticeable volatility in stocks, this raises concerns that larger ETF flows will drive markets, rather than merely tracking them.

      Furthermore, it’s important to note that both funds have only been in operation during a relatively quiet period in the Vietnam market. If Van Eck is struggling to maintain its fund price at NAV in these conditions, one wonders what would have happened during the bubble. Overall, investors should probably think carefully about whether ETFs are the best tools for a Vietnam strategy or whether this is a market too far for indexing at present.

      www.indexuniverse.eu/europe/opinion-and-analysis/7748-a-mark…
      Avatar
      schrieb am 05.01.12 13:55:47
      Beitrag Nr. 86 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.553.892 von ThaiClaus am 05.01.12 13:11:42Der ETF Vietnam kaufte die MSN Aktien ( Masan Group ) von BankInvest am 19.September zum Kurs von über ~151 000 Dong/Aktie.

      3,5 Monate später liegt der Kurs von MSN bei 86 500 Dong/Aktie.

      Diese FTSE Leute machen wirklich einen sehr guten Job in Sachen Geldvernichtung.....

      VIC ist wieder die größte Position ... Ende November kostete sie noch ~83 000 Dong/Aktie am 30 Dezember ~100 000 Dong/Aktie.
      Macht unser ETF die Kurse ??

      Grüße
      TC
      3 Antworten
      Avatar
      schrieb am 05.01.12 13:11:42
      Beitrag Nr. 85 ()
      29.12.2011
      Implizite Fondszusammensetzung

      Name ------------------ Gewichtung [%]
      Vincom ------------------ 25,21
      Masan Gr. ------------------ 10,94
      Joint Stock Commercial Bank for Foreign Trade of Vietnam ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 6,51
      Vietnam Joint Stock Commercial Bank For Industry & Trade ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 6,29
      HAGL Joint Stock Co ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 6,06
      Petroviet Fertlz (new) ------------------ 5,85
      Petrovietnam Dri - NEW ------------------ 5,45
      HOA PHAT GROUP JSC ------------------ 4,27
      Bao Viet Hldgs. ------------------ 4,03
      Kinhbac City Develop. Share Hlds. ------------------ 2,54
      Refrigeration Eletrical Engineering Company ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 2,26
      Petrovietnam Finance Joint Stock Corp ------------------ 2,21
      Phu Nhuan Jewelry JSC ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 1,98
      Tan Tao Inv Ind (New) ------------------ 1,76
      Becamex Infrastruct. Develop. ------------------ 1,74
      Kinh Do (New) ------------------ 1,67
      Song Da Urban ------------------ 1,66
      Pha Lai Thermal - NEW ------------------ 1,53
      Ocean Group ------------------ 1,49
      Gemadept Corporation ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 1,44
      Quoc Cuong Gia Lai ------------------ 1,43
      Development Investment Construction JSC ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 1,08
      Khang Dien House ------------------ 0,74
      Petrovnm General ------------------ 0,63
      DaNang Rubber Jsc ORD VND 10000 ------------------ 0,62
      Tu Liem Urban (New) ------------------ 0,60
      4 Antworten

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      schrieb am 02.01.12 20:05:26
      Beitrag Nr. 84 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.536.759 von Demotrend am 01.01.12 11:17:50Immerhin konnte die Inflation (gg. 12/2010) bei 18,13 % gehalten werden. Gegenüber dem November waren es immerhin nur 0,53 %. Das sieht besser aus als zuletzt.

      http://www.gso.gov.vn/default.aspx?tabid=622&ItemID=12133
      Avatar
      schrieb am 02.01.12 19:54:06
      Beitrag Nr. 83 ()
      Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 42.537.225 von Demotrend am 01.01.12 17:56:14Der NAV vom 30.11.2011 betrug 0,4135 USD. Anscheinend wird das Ding in Dublin aber nie gehandelt ??

      http://www.ise.ie/Investment-Funds/Individual-Fund-Data/Show…

      Ob der Fonds evtl. steuerliche Probleme macht, weiß ich auch nicht. Aber trotzdem interessant. Der Abschlag in Berlin ist schon heftig. Der Spread aber auch, man müsste 0,175 Euro bezahlen.
      Avatar
      schrieb am 01.01.12 17:56:14
      Beitrag Nr. 82 ()
      P.S.: DWS Vietnam Fund Ltd. ist scheinbar eine Aktie (geschlossener Fonds im Aktienmantel) und wird auch in Deutschland gehandelt (WKN:A0LE88). Der letzte NAV-wert, den ich finden konnte, stammt vom 31.10.2011 und lag bei 0,4289 USD je Aktie. In Deutschland wurde die Aktie zuletzt zu 0,16 EUR gehandelt. Das entspräche einem Abschlag von ca. 50%.

      http://www.dwsvietnamfund.com/EN/showpage.aspx?pageID=5
      1 Antwort
      Avatar
      schrieb am 01.01.12 11:17:50
      Beitrag Nr. 81 ()
      Vietnam ist auch aus demografischer Sicht eine Mega-Chance!

      http://demografie-und-finanzmaerkte.blogspot.com/2012/01/vie…
      1 Antwort
      Avatar
      schrieb am 05.12.11 13:17:52
      Beitrag Nr. 80 ()
      What Benefits from VN-30 Index?
      Posted: Saturday, October 01, 2011

      The Hochiminh Stock Exchange (HOSE) recently hosted a seminar to introduce the VN-30 Index to market members. Will this index resolve shortcomings of the current VN-Index?


      Mr Hoang Thach Lan, Brokerage Manager at MHB Securities Corporation (MHBS), said: From the angle of an individual investor, when HOSE gave reasons for the formation of the VN-30 Index, only the reason that aimed to resolve shortcomings of the current VN-Index was persuasive while others are too generic and impractical.

      The VN-30 Index was introduced to eliminate the "distortion" of the current VN-Index caused by some stocks with large market caps (commonly called as the quartet: BVH, VIC, VNM and MSN). These stocks outweigh the rest in market capitalisation. By adjusting the market capitalisation to the free-float shares and reducing the weight of these stocks to a moderate limit (10 percent of the total market cap), the VN -30 Index can solve this problem.


      The so-called quartet will be adjusted in the following sequences: First, the market capitalisation (market price is multiplied by outstanding shares) is multiplied by the free-float coefficient (excluding rarely traded shares held by the State and strategic shareholders, and restricted shares held by members of the board of directors); next, excluding stocks with free-float coefficient (the number of shares freely traded on the market over the total number of outstanding shares) of less than 5 percent; then pick out 30 stocks and adjust their weights in the basket.

      However, according to Mr Lan, this is not the main objective because if there is only the need to adjust the weights of capitalisation, it is not necessary to reduce the basket size from more than 300 stocks to only 30. He explained that HOSE, with its sufficient data and technology, can easily adjust the VN-Index. If the Stock Exchange creates the VN-30 Index, will it redefine the VN-Index? Investors still refer to the adjusted VN-Index and they do need to find out a new index. So, what is the main objective of the VN-30 Index?

      According to HOSE, the VN-30 Index will help enhance HOSE’s provision of services. However, some investors said it will also help improve the service provision of HOSE’s members. Services thereof include providing information for securities companies, fund management companies and other institutions to create portfolios/index-tracking funds (e.g. ETF) and then exchange-traded funds (A security that tracks an index, a commodity or a basket of assets like an index fund, but trades like a stock on an exchange. ETFs experience price changes throughout the day as they are bought and sold.)

      In addition, on many stock markets, investors track indexes to create a portfolio with net asset value (NAV) changing in relation to the index instead of analysing listed companies to find out good picks. Index analysis means analysing macroeconomic data and technical graphs rather than look into financial reports and the research impossibly fully reflects the status of target companies and serves as the basis for due diligence reports on such companies.

      Today, instead of setting up portfolios, securities companies, securities investment companies, fund management companies and other related entities provide and manage these portfolios for customers who are investors. Without doubt, market insiders all know an ETF called the Market Vectors Vietnam (VNM) ETF managed by Van Eck Global, which tracks the VN-Index. In addition, securities companies like Saigon Securities Inc (SSI) or investment funds like Dragon Capital (DC) also created their own indices for this purpose. However, the biggest obstacle to VN-Index trackers is the inability of calculating the exact number of free-float shares on the market. In theory, the “distortion” of the VN-Index can be resolved by continuous buying and selling of stocks in ETFs. In reality, except for HOSE, none is capable of accurately and continuously collecting and calculating the volume of free-float shares of stocks in ETFs and estimating whether they are big enough to meet such continuous purchase and sale or not. Remarkably, foreign ETFs very much concern the current room (amount of shares foreign investors are allowed to buy). If the room is full, foreigners cannot buy more.


      Hence, the best way is to rely on HOSE to create portfolios. The VN-30 Index is essentially a list of large-cap stocks which account for 80 percent of the total market capitalisation and represent all stocks listed on HOSE. As it has sufficient data (as more than 300 listed companies report adequately) to calculate free-float shares, HOSE can helps DC, SSI and other ETFs to create index trackers. Securities companies, investment funds and other related entities need much less effort to attain what they want very much and HOSE also benefits from this (creating sub-indices for the market, following international practices adopted by developed stock exchanges in the world, making money from selling information about the structure of the VN-30 Index to its members in need). To a greater extent, the entire market will benefit from this: Integrating with international practices, attracting other foreign ETFs (or portfolio investment), boosting the market liquidity.
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      Einstieg in Vietnam - jetzt oder nie!