Fall von friendly fire sorgt für Empörung in Großbritannien - 500 Beiträge pro Seite
eröffnet am 08.02.07 12:46:41 von
neuester Beitrag 08.02.07 13:09:51 von
neuester Beitrag 08.02.07 13:09:51 von
Beiträge: 6
ID: 1.110.647
ID: 1.110.647
Aufrufe heute: 0
Gesamt: 517
Gesamt: 517
Aktive User: 0
Top-Diskussionen
| Titel | letzter Beitrag | Aufrufe |
|---|---|---|
| vor 19 Minuten | 6810 | |
| vor 17 Minuten | 5882 | |
| vor 25 Minuten | 3304 | |
| heute 14:42 | 2390 | |
| vor 41 Minuten | 1728 | |
| vor 18 Minuten | 1581 | |
| vor 17 Minuten | 1580 | |
| heute 06:53 | 1535 |
Meistdiskutierte Wertpapiere
| Platz | vorher | Wertpapier | Kurs | Perf. % | Anzahl | ||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1. | 1. | 18.416,22 | +1,09 | 279 | |||
| 2. | 2. | 10,320 | -2,46 | 98 | |||
| 3. | 3. | 171,64 | +0,02 | 98 | |||
| 4. | 6. | 7,0280 | +1,56 | 59 | |||
| 5. | 4. | 1,1200 | -12,50 | 58 | |||
| 6. | 13. | 0,1995 | +3,64 | 55 | |||
| 7. | 8. | 6,8220 | +0,12 | 51 | |||
| 8. | 18. | 10,100 | -7,00 | 46 |
Feedback
ein von dem tabloid "the sun" veröffentlichtes video vom irrtümlichen beschuss eines britischen convoys schlägt wellen im königreich. bei dem beschuss kam der corporal matty hull ums leben.
stimmen, die nach dem abzug der britischen truppen rufen, werden wieder lauter, ob der arroganten haltung des us-verteidigungsministeriums. merkwürdig ist nur, daß ausgerechnet jetzt der fall aus dem jahr 2003 breitgetreten wird, wo bush so unpopulär ist, wie nie, und der abgang blairs vor der tür steht.
ein schelm, wer böses dabei denkt.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007060452,00.html
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_16PdWnBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdJ4X_wWj0
SPON schreibt:
BRITEN HADERN MIT USA
Amerikas bester Freund - bitter enttäuscht
Von Sebastian Borger , London
Die Briten sind empört. Grund: Die Ignoranz, mit der die US-Army auf ein Video reagiert, das zeigt, wie ein britischer Soldat versehentlich von US-Kampfpiloten erschossen wird. Jetzt ist die transatlantische Freundschaft ernsthaft bedroht.
London - Zuerst tiefe Genugtuung im angreifenden Flugzeug, dann Entsetzen über einen schrecklichen Fehler: Ein amerikanischer Pilot feuert im Irak auf einen britischen Soldaten. Die Bilder wirken verschwommen, der Ton aber ist unmissverständlich. "Ich will ihn erwischen, ehe er die Siedlung erreicht", sagt der amerikanische Pilot eines Kampfflugzeuges vom Typ A-10 Thunderbolt. Sein Patrouillenpartner feuert ihn an: "Besorg's ihm, besorg's ihm!" Kurz darauf die Bestätigung: "Gute Treffer." Der zweite Pilot: "Erwischt." Wenig später kommt vom Boden die schreckliche Meldung: Die 'guten Treffer' haben einen Verbündeten getötet. In den Cockpits herrscht Schweigen. Dann sagt der eine: "Ich muss kotzen." Der andere schreit "Scheiße". Und weint.
Das dramatische Video vom Einsatz nahe der südirakischen Stadt Basra im März 2003 vermittelt nicht nur einen hautnahen Eindruck davon, unter welchem Druck Kampfpiloten stehen, wenn sie in Sekundenschnelle ihre Entscheidungen treffen. Der eklatante Fall von friendly fire, also einem Beschuss durch eigene Verbündete, hat auch zu einer schweren Belastung der vielbeschworenen "besonderen Beziehung", jener beinahe mystischen "special relationship" zwischen den USA und Großbritannien geführt.
Denn der Tote am Boden war der britische Gefreite Matty Hull, 25, vom Königlichen Kavallerie-Regiment. Hartnäckig verweigerte das Pentagon dem Oxforder Todesermittlungsverfahren den Cockpit-Film. Erst nachdem das Londoner Boulevard-Blatt "The Sun" eine Mitschrift und Kopie des Films veröffentlicht hatte, bequemten sich die Amerikaner zur offiziellen Herausgabe des wichtigen Beweismittels.
Piloten ließen vermutlich Vorschriften außer Acht
Vieles spricht dafür, dass die Piloten der Nationalgarde mehrere Vorschriften außer Acht ließen, zudem trotz bester Sicht die orangefarbene Markierung der Briten übersahen. Eine Untersuchung der US-Airforce sprach das Duo jedoch von Schuld frei; der Todesschütze wurde zum Oberst befördert und dient heute als Ausbilder junger Kampfpiloten. Die Witwe seines Opfers musste jahrelang um die Aufklärung kämpfen. "Endlich sehe ich, wie mein Mann gestorben ist wegen dieser beiden Idioten", sagt Grundschullehrerin Susan Hull.
Die Verweigerungshaltung der Amerikaner sorgt in London für Empörung. "Wir sind gute Freunde und enge Verbündete. Aber diese Freundschaft bringt Verpflichtungen mit sich, zum Beispiel die Verpflichtung zur Ehrlichkeit", kommentierte die "Sun". In der "Daily Mail" schäumte Kolumnist Stephen Glover, das Königreich werde "von unserem sogenannten Verbündeten mit Verachtung behandelt". Der Leitartikler des "Telegraph" stimmte der Analyse zu: "Als loyalster Verbündeter der Vereinigten Staaten hätten wir Besseres verdient."
"Amerika als Totengräber"
Premierminister Tony Blair sah sich im Unterhaus zu milder Kritik am eigenen Verteidigungsministerium genötigt. Natürlich werde man dem Fall nachgehen, damit "wir unter ähnlichen Umständen besser damit umgehen" könnten. Auf seine enge Zusammenarbeit mit US-Präsident George Bush aber lässt Blair nichts kommen: "Die Beziehung zu Amerika dient überall als Türöffner." Der "Independent" druckte das Zitat groß auf der Titelseite, darunter einen fiktiven Soldaten-Friedhof mit den Namen von 100 im Irak getöteten britischen Soldaten: Amerika nicht als Türöffner, sondern als Totengräber.
So sehen es viele Labour-Abgeordnete, und keineswegs nur altgediente Blair-Kritiker wie Ex-Verteidigungsstaatssekretär Peter Kilfoyle, der seinen Premier "verblendet" nennt. Mit der schwindenden Autorität des Premiers auf Abruf gehört auch die Kabinettsdisziplin der Vergangenheit an. Die Zusammenarbeit mit den Amerikanern sei arg schwierig, klagt Nordirland-Minister Peter Hain, der sich im Sommer um den Vize-Parteivorsitz bewirbt. Man habe es schließlich zu tun "mit der seit Menschengedenken am weitesten rechts stehenden US-Administration".
Blairs potentielle Nachfolger haben signalisiert, dass mit ihnen ein anderer Wind über den Atlantik wehen werde. Der Schatzkanzler und einzige Kandidat für die parteiinterne Nachfolge, Gordon Brown, spricht demonstrativ von "britischen Interessen", die es fortan voranzustellen gelte. Oppositionsführer David Cameron von den sonst so amerikatreuen Konservativen beschwor schon im Herbst eine "robuste, ehrliche Beziehung" zum übermächtigen Bruder. Der Termin der außenpolitischen Grundsatzrede war Programm: Cameron sprach am 11. September, dem fünften Jahrestag der Massenmorde von New York, Washington und Pennsylvania.
Bereits unter Blairs Regentschaft hat die Distanzierung vom Verbündeten begonnen. Anders als US-Präsident George W. Bush, der zusätzliche Soldaten in den Irak schicken will, hält Großbritannien unbeirrt an einem markanten Truppenabzug aus dem Südosten des Landes rund um die Metropole Basra fest, den Verteidigungsminister Des Browne bereits im November angekündigt hatte. Hinter vorgehaltener Hand ist von bis zu 3000 Soldaten die Rede, die den Irak bis Ende Mai verlassen sollen. Derzeit beträgt die britische Truppenstärke im Zweistromland noch 7500.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,465074,00.html
stimmen, die nach dem abzug der britischen truppen rufen, werden wieder lauter, ob der arroganten haltung des us-verteidigungsministeriums. merkwürdig ist nur, daß ausgerechnet jetzt der fall aus dem jahr 2003 breitgetreten wird, wo bush so unpopulär ist, wie nie, und der abgang blairs vor der tür steht.
ein schelm, wer böses dabei denkt.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2007060452,00.html
video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV_16PdWnBo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFdJ4X_wWj0
SPON schreibt:
BRITEN HADERN MIT USA
Amerikas bester Freund - bitter enttäuscht
Von Sebastian Borger , London
Die Briten sind empört. Grund: Die Ignoranz, mit der die US-Army auf ein Video reagiert, das zeigt, wie ein britischer Soldat versehentlich von US-Kampfpiloten erschossen wird. Jetzt ist die transatlantische Freundschaft ernsthaft bedroht.
London - Zuerst tiefe Genugtuung im angreifenden Flugzeug, dann Entsetzen über einen schrecklichen Fehler: Ein amerikanischer Pilot feuert im Irak auf einen britischen Soldaten. Die Bilder wirken verschwommen, der Ton aber ist unmissverständlich. "Ich will ihn erwischen, ehe er die Siedlung erreicht", sagt der amerikanische Pilot eines Kampfflugzeuges vom Typ A-10 Thunderbolt. Sein Patrouillenpartner feuert ihn an: "Besorg's ihm, besorg's ihm!" Kurz darauf die Bestätigung: "Gute Treffer." Der zweite Pilot: "Erwischt." Wenig später kommt vom Boden die schreckliche Meldung: Die 'guten Treffer' haben einen Verbündeten getötet. In den Cockpits herrscht Schweigen. Dann sagt der eine: "Ich muss kotzen." Der andere schreit "Scheiße". Und weint.
Das dramatische Video vom Einsatz nahe der südirakischen Stadt Basra im März 2003 vermittelt nicht nur einen hautnahen Eindruck davon, unter welchem Druck Kampfpiloten stehen, wenn sie in Sekundenschnelle ihre Entscheidungen treffen. Der eklatante Fall von friendly fire, also einem Beschuss durch eigene Verbündete, hat auch zu einer schweren Belastung der vielbeschworenen "besonderen Beziehung", jener beinahe mystischen "special relationship" zwischen den USA und Großbritannien geführt.
Denn der Tote am Boden war der britische Gefreite Matty Hull, 25, vom Königlichen Kavallerie-Regiment. Hartnäckig verweigerte das Pentagon dem Oxforder Todesermittlungsverfahren den Cockpit-Film. Erst nachdem das Londoner Boulevard-Blatt "The Sun" eine Mitschrift und Kopie des Films veröffentlicht hatte, bequemten sich die Amerikaner zur offiziellen Herausgabe des wichtigen Beweismittels.
Piloten ließen vermutlich Vorschriften außer Acht
Vieles spricht dafür, dass die Piloten der Nationalgarde mehrere Vorschriften außer Acht ließen, zudem trotz bester Sicht die orangefarbene Markierung der Briten übersahen. Eine Untersuchung der US-Airforce sprach das Duo jedoch von Schuld frei; der Todesschütze wurde zum Oberst befördert und dient heute als Ausbilder junger Kampfpiloten. Die Witwe seines Opfers musste jahrelang um die Aufklärung kämpfen. "Endlich sehe ich, wie mein Mann gestorben ist wegen dieser beiden Idioten", sagt Grundschullehrerin Susan Hull.
Die Verweigerungshaltung der Amerikaner sorgt in London für Empörung. "Wir sind gute Freunde und enge Verbündete. Aber diese Freundschaft bringt Verpflichtungen mit sich, zum Beispiel die Verpflichtung zur Ehrlichkeit", kommentierte die "Sun". In der "Daily Mail" schäumte Kolumnist Stephen Glover, das Königreich werde "von unserem sogenannten Verbündeten mit Verachtung behandelt". Der Leitartikler des "Telegraph" stimmte der Analyse zu: "Als loyalster Verbündeter der Vereinigten Staaten hätten wir Besseres verdient."
"Amerika als Totengräber"
Premierminister Tony Blair sah sich im Unterhaus zu milder Kritik am eigenen Verteidigungsministerium genötigt. Natürlich werde man dem Fall nachgehen, damit "wir unter ähnlichen Umständen besser damit umgehen" könnten. Auf seine enge Zusammenarbeit mit US-Präsident George Bush aber lässt Blair nichts kommen: "Die Beziehung zu Amerika dient überall als Türöffner." Der "Independent" druckte das Zitat groß auf der Titelseite, darunter einen fiktiven Soldaten-Friedhof mit den Namen von 100 im Irak getöteten britischen Soldaten: Amerika nicht als Türöffner, sondern als Totengräber.
So sehen es viele Labour-Abgeordnete, und keineswegs nur altgediente Blair-Kritiker wie Ex-Verteidigungsstaatssekretär Peter Kilfoyle, der seinen Premier "verblendet" nennt. Mit der schwindenden Autorität des Premiers auf Abruf gehört auch die Kabinettsdisziplin der Vergangenheit an. Die Zusammenarbeit mit den Amerikanern sei arg schwierig, klagt Nordirland-Minister Peter Hain, der sich im Sommer um den Vize-Parteivorsitz bewirbt. Man habe es schließlich zu tun "mit der seit Menschengedenken am weitesten rechts stehenden US-Administration".
Blairs potentielle Nachfolger haben signalisiert, dass mit ihnen ein anderer Wind über den Atlantik wehen werde. Der Schatzkanzler und einzige Kandidat für die parteiinterne Nachfolge, Gordon Brown, spricht demonstrativ von "britischen Interessen", die es fortan voranzustellen gelte. Oppositionsführer David Cameron von den sonst so amerikatreuen Konservativen beschwor schon im Herbst eine "robuste, ehrliche Beziehung" zum übermächtigen Bruder. Der Termin der außenpolitischen Grundsatzrede war Programm: Cameron sprach am 11. September, dem fünften Jahrestag der Massenmorde von New York, Washington und Pennsylvania.
Bereits unter Blairs Regentschaft hat die Distanzierung vom Verbündeten begonnen. Anders als US-Präsident George W. Bush, der zusätzliche Soldaten in den Irak schicken will, hält Großbritannien unbeirrt an einem markanten Truppenabzug aus dem Südosten des Landes rund um die Metropole Basra fest, den Verteidigungsminister Des Browne bereits im November angekündigt hatte. Hinter vorgehaltener Hand ist von bis zu 3000 Soldaten die Rede, die den Irak bis Ende Mai verlassen sollen. Derzeit beträgt die britische Truppenstärke im Zweistromland noch 7500.
http://www.spiegel.de/politik/ausland/0,1518,465074,00.html
uups, die halbe überschrift fehlt mal wieder.
es sollte heißen:
"fall von friendly fire sorgt für empörung in großbritannien"
könnte das bitte jemand ändern?
danke
es sollte heißen:
"fall von friendly fire sorgt für empörung in großbritannien"
könnte das bitte jemand ändern?
danke
Old technology, poor training and drug use raise concerns
Julian Borger, diplomatic editor
Wednesday February 7, 2007
The Guardian
The US air force has a long history of friendly fire incidents, in part because it is the world's overwhelmingly dominant air power, but concerns have been raised over the training of reservist pilots, amphetamine use and the reliance on outdated technology to distinguish friend from foe.
The two US pilots involved in the strafing of the Household Cavalry regiment near Basra in 2003, whose voices were recorded on the cockpit videotape, were both reservists with the Idaho Air National Guard. In another friendly fire incident, which killed four Canadians in Afghanistan the previous year, the two pilots were also National Guard part-timers.
Sam Gardiner, a retired US air force colonel who has taught military strategy at the Air War College, said National Guard pilots do not have as much experience as regular air force pilots in combined exercises with Nato allies. As a result they are not used to seeing British vehicles below them.
"These guys are trained well enough to fly the airplanes and do the missions, but when it comes to complex multinational missions, they have not had that Nato experience," Mr Gardiner said.
That claim was denied by Lt Col Catherine Reardon, a US air force spokeswoman, who said there was no difference in the capabilities of reservist, National Guard and regular air force pilots. "Pilot training is pilot training," she said. She did not have statistics showing whether or not reservist and National Guard pilots were involved in a disproportionate number of friendly fire incidents.
What appears to be beyond dispute is the lack of progress in developing a modern method of definitively identifying allied forces on the ground, to avoid lethal mistakes. From the cockpit transcript, it is clear the pilots see the orange panels on the top of the British vehicles but ultimately decide they are rocket launchers.
"This goes back to the invasion of Europe in 1944. On the front of our vehicles we had orange panels," Mr Gardiner said. "They are still using 60-year-old technology."
Another unknown is the role of drugs. Lawyers for the two National Guard pilots court martialled for the Canadian deaths in Afghanistan raised the possibility that their actions could have been influenced by dextroamphetamine "go pills" routinely taken by US combat pilots to keep them alert on long sorties. Side-effects include agitation, paranoia and psychosis. British pilots are banned from taking such stimulants. They were banned for five years by the US air force, but reinstated in 1996.
It is not clear what issues were raised in a series of internal US air force inquiries into the incident that killed Lance Corporal Matty Hull, because the deliberations have not been made public. But it is almost certain the pilots involved will not appear in a British court. The US does not extradite its fighters, and fought the creation of the international criminal court largely on that principle.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007386,00.html
Julian Borger, diplomatic editor
Wednesday February 7, 2007
The Guardian
The US air force has a long history of friendly fire incidents, in part because it is the world's overwhelmingly dominant air power, but concerns have been raised over the training of reservist pilots, amphetamine use and the reliance on outdated technology to distinguish friend from foe.
The two US pilots involved in the strafing of the Household Cavalry regiment near Basra in 2003, whose voices were recorded on the cockpit videotape, were both reservists with the Idaho Air National Guard. In another friendly fire incident, which killed four Canadians in Afghanistan the previous year, the two pilots were also National Guard part-timers.
Sam Gardiner, a retired US air force colonel who has taught military strategy at the Air War College, said National Guard pilots do not have as much experience as regular air force pilots in combined exercises with Nato allies. As a result they are not used to seeing British vehicles below them.
"These guys are trained well enough to fly the airplanes and do the missions, but when it comes to complex multinational missions, they have not had that Nato experience," Mr Gardiner said.
That claim was denied by Lt Col Catherine Reardon, a US air force spokeswoman, who said there was no difference in the capabilities of reservist, National Guard and regular air force pilots. "Pilot training is pilot training," she said. She did not have statistics showing whether or not reservist and National Guard pilots were involved in a disproportionate number of friendly fire incidents.
What appears to be beyond dispute is the lack of progress in developing a modern method of definitively identifying allied forces on the ground, to avoid lethal mistakes. From the cockpit transcript, it is clear the pilots see the orange panels on the top of the British vehicles but ultimately decide they are rocket launchers.
"This goes back to the invasion of Europe in 1944. On the front of our vehicles we had orange panels," Mr Gardiner said. "They are still using 60-year-old technology."
Another unknown is the role of drugs. Lawyers for the two National Guard pilots court martialled for the Canadian deaths in Afghanistan raised the possibility that their actions could have been influenced by dextroamphetamine "go pills" routinely taken by US combat pilots to keep them alert on long sorties. Side-effects include agitation, paranoia and psychosis. British pilots are banned from taking such stimulants. They were banned for five years by the US air force, but reinstated in 1996.
It is not clear what issues were raised in a series of internal US air force inquiries into the incident that killed Lance Corporal Matty Hull, because the deliberations have not been made public. But it is almost certain the pilots involved will not appear in a British court. The US does not extradite its fighters, and fought the creation of the international criminal court largely on that principle.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007386,00.html
'I'm going to be sick'
The transcript of the conversation between two US pilots whose planes attacked a British convoy in southern Iraq in March 2003
Tuesday February 6, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
According to The Sun, which printed the transcript from a cockpit video taken from one of the planes and obtained by the newspaper, this was the attack in which Lance Corporal Matty Hull was killed.
The transcript identifies the pilots of the A-10 planes only as POPOV36 - who fired at the convoy, and who the Sun said was a lieutenant colonel -- and POPOV35, a major.
Also speaking are Manila Hotel, Manila34 and Lightning34, US Marine Corps forward air controllers on the ground and attached to British units. Later, Sky Chief, a US AWAC jet controlling the air battle and COSTA58, a British pilot nearby, also speak.
The times given, from the digital clock on the pilot's display, are in GMT.
Transcript starts:
1336.30 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV from MANILA HOTEL. Can you confirm you engaged that tube and those vehicles?
1336.36 POPOV35: Affirm Sir. Looks like I've got multiple vehicles in reverts at about 800 metres to the north of your arty (artillery) rounds. Can you switch fire, and shift fire, and get some arty rounds on those?
1336.47 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, I understand that those are the impacts you observed earlier on my timing?
1336.51 POPOV35: Affirmative.
1336.52 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, standby. Let me make sure they're not on another mission.
1336.57 POPOV36: Hey, I got a four ship. Looks like we got orange panels on them though. Do we have any friendlies up in this area?
1337.03 MANILA HOTEL: I understand that was north 800 metres.
1337.12 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV, understand that was north 800 metres?
1337.16 POPOV35: Confirm, north 800 metres. Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.
1337.21 MANILA HOTEL: That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.
1337.25 POPOV35: Copy. I see multiple riveted vehicles. Some look like flatbed trucks and others are green vehicles. Can't quite make out the type. Look like may be ZIL157s [Russian made trucks used by Iraqi army].
1337.36 MANILA HOTEL: Roger. That matches our intel up there. And understand you also have the other fixed wing up this push? For terminal control, if you can.
1337.44 POPOV35: I'd love to. I didn't talk to him yet.
1337.46 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, I believe CASPER is up this push too. Two Super Tomcats.
1337.54 POPOV35: Hey dude.
1337.56 POPOV36: I got a four ship of vehicles that are evenly spaced along a road going north.
1338.04 POPOV36: Look down at your right, 2 o'clock, at 10 o'clock low, there is a, left 10 o'clock low, look down there north along that canal, right there. Coming up just south of the village.
1338.21 POPOV35: Evenly spaced? Where we strafed?
1338.23 POPOV36: No. No. Further east, further west, right now. And there's four or five of them right now heading up there.
1338.29 POPOV35: No, I don't have you visual.
1338.30 POPOV36: I'm back at your 6 - no factor.
1338.31 POPOV35: OK, now where's this canal?
1338.35 POPOV35: Don't hit those F18s that are out there.
1338.38 POPOV36: OK. Right underneath you. Right now, there's a canal that runs north/south. There's a small village, and there are vehicles that are spaced evenly there.
1338.49 POPOV36: They look like they have orange panels on though.
1338.51 POPOV35: He told me, he told me there's nobody north of here.
1338.52 POPOV36: I know. There, right on the river.
1338.53 POPOV35: I see vehicles though, might be our original dudes.
1339.09 POPOV36: They've got something orange on top of them.
1339.10 POPOV35: POPOV for MANILA 3, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.14 MANILA HOTEL: Say again?
1339.15 POPOV35: MANILA HOTEL, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.19 MANILA HOTEL: Negative. Understand they are well clear of that now.
1339.23 POPOV35: OK, copy. Like I said, multiple riveted vehicles. They look like flatbed trucks. Are those your targets?
1339.30 MANILA HOTEL: That's affirm.
1339.31 POPOV35: OK.
1339.34 POPOV36: Let me ask you one question.
1339.35 POPOV35: What's that?
1339.45 POPO36: (to MANILA HOTEL) Hey, tell me what type of rocket launchers you got up here.
1339.50 POPOV36: I think they're rocket launchers.
1339.52 MANILA HOTEL: . . . (garbled) You were stepped on, say again.
1339.54 POPOV35: MANILA HOTEL, fire your arty up that 800 metres north, and see how we do.
1340.01 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, standby for shot. They are getting adjustments to the guns now.
1340.34 POPOV35: Copy.
1340.09 POPOV36: Roll up your right wing and look right underneath you.
1340.12 POPOV35: (angry) I know what you're talking about.
1340.13 POPOV36: OK, well they got orange rockets on them.
1340.17 POPOV35: Orange rockets?
1340.17 POPOV36: Yeah, I think so.
1340.18 POPOV35: Let me look.
1340.26 POPOV35: We need to think about getting home.
1340.29 POPOV36: 3.6 is what it says (a fuel measurement).
1340.31 POPOV35: Yeah, I know. I'm talking time wise.
1340.35 POPOV36: I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great. (The tape then becomes garbled)
1340.52 MANILA HOTEL: Yeah, POPOV36, MANILA HOTEL. I've got other aircraft up this push. Not sure they're coming to me. Someone else might be working this freak.
1341.00 POPOV35: Yeah, MANILA34 is working them, break, break.
1340.12 POPOV36: Yeah, I see that, you see I'm going to roll down.
1340.15 MANILA 34: Break, be advised MANILA34 is not working the F18s unless they are trying to check in with me, over.
1341.21 POPOV35: Copy.
1341.24 POPOV36: OK, do you see the orange things on top of them?
1341.32 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL. Are you able to switch to Crimson?
1341.37 POPOV36: POPOV 36 is rolling in.
1341.40 MANILA HOTEL: Tell you what.
1341.41 POPOV35: I'm coming off west. You roll in. It looks like they are exactly what we're talking about.
1341.49 POPOV36: We got visual.
1341.50 POPOV36: OK. I want to get that first one before he gets into town then.
1341.53 POPOV35: Get him - get him.
1341.55 POPOV36: All right, we got rocket launchers, it looks like. Number 2 is rolling in from the south to the north, and 2's in.
1342.04 POPOV35: Get it.
According to The Sun, POPOV36, then puts his A-10 into a dive to strafe the British column, destroying two Scimitar armoured vehicles and killing L/Cpl Hull.
1342.09 - GUNFIRE -
1342.18 POPOV35: I'm off your west.
1342.22 POPOV35: Good hits.
1342.29 POPOV36: Got a visual.
1342.30 POPOV35: I got a visual. You're at your high 10.
1342.31 POPOV36: Gotcha.
1342.30 POPOV36: That's what you think they are, right?
1342.39 POPOV35: It looks like it to me, and I got my goggles on them now.
1342.59 POPOV35: OK, I'm looking at getting down low at this.
1343.13 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL, guns . . .
1343.17 MANILA HOTEL: To engage those targets in the revetts [slopes].
1343.24 POPOV36: It looks like he is hauling ass. Ha ha. Is that what you think they are?
1343.34 POPOV36: 1-2
1343.35 POPOV35: It doesn't look friendly.
1343.38 POPOV36: OK, I'm in again from the south.
1343.40 POPOV35: Ok.
1343.47 - GUNFIRE -
1343.54 LIGHTNING 34: POPOV 34, LIGHTNING 34.
1344.09 POPOV35: POPOV 35, LIGHTNING 34 GO.
1344.12 LIGHTNING 34: Roger, POPOV. Be advised that in the 3122 and 3222 group box you have friendly armour in the area. Yellow, small armoured tanks. Just be advised.
1344.16 POPOV35: Ahh shit.
1344.19 P0POV35: Got a - got a smoke.
1344.21 LIGHTNING 34: Hey, POPOV34, abort your mission. You got a, looks we might have a blue on blue situation.
1344.25 POPOV35: Fuck. God bless it.
1344.29 POPOV35: POPOV 34.
1344.35 POPOV35: Fuck, fuck, fuck.
1344.36 MANILA 34: POPOV34, this is MANILA 34. Did you copy my last, over?
1344.39 POPOV35: I did.
1344.47 POPOV35: Confirm those are friendlies on that side of the canal.
1344.51 POPOV35: Shit.
1344.58 MANILA 34: Standby POPOV.
1345.04 POPOV36: God dammit.
1344.14 MANILA HOTEL: Hey POPOV 36, from MANILA HOTEL.
1344.25 MANILA 34: OK POPOV. Just west of the 3-4 easting. On the berm up there, the 3422 area is where we have our friendlies, over.
1344.39 POPOV35: All right, POPOV 35 has smoke. Let me know how those friendlies are right now, please.
1344.45 MANILA 34: Roger, standby.
1344.49 POPOV35: Gotta go home dude.
1344.50 POPOV36: Yeah, I know. We're fucked.
1345.54 POPOV35: Shit.
1346.01 POPOV36: As you cross the circle, you are 3 o'clock low.
1346.03 POPOV35: Roger.
1346.12 POPOV35: POPOV 35 is bingo. Let us know what's happening.
13446.15 MANILA HOTEL: Roger. We are getting that information for you right now. Standby.
1346.20 POPOV36: Fuck.
1346.47 MANILA 34: POPOV, this is MANILA 34 over.
1346.51 POPOV35: Go.
1346.55 MANILA 34: POPOV 4, MANILA 34 over.
1347.01 POPOV35: Go.
1347.02 MANILA 34: We are getting an initial brief that there was one killed and one wounded, over.
1347.09 POPOV35: Copy. RTB (return to base).
1347.18 POPOV35: I'm going to be sick.
1347.24 POPOV36: Ah fuck.
1347.48 POPOV35: Did you hear?
1347.51 POPOV36: Yeah, this sucks.
1347.52 POPOV35: We're in jail, dude.
1347.59 POPOV36: Aaaahhhh.
1348.12 SKY CHIEF: MANILA this is SKY CHIEF over.
1348.18 MANILA34: This is MANILA 34, send SKY CHIEF.
1348.22 COSTA58: SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.25 MANILA HOTEL: SKY CHIEF, this is MANILA HOTEL.
1348.30 COSTA58: SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.41 SKY CHIEF: Relaying for TWINACT, the A-10s are running against friendlies.
1348.47 COSTA58: POPOV 35, this is COSTA58. Relaying message for TWINACT. Abort, abort.
1348.54 SKY CHIEF: MANILA how copy A-10s are running against friendlies. Abort. Over.
1349.07 COSTA58: From TWINACT, abort, abort.
1349. 11 POPOV35: POPOV 35 aborting.
1349.14 COSTA58: We will relay that back to TWINACT.
1349.18 POPOV36: Fuck. God fucking shit.
1350.21 POPOV36: Dammit. Fucking damn it. 1351.17 P0POV36: God dammit. Fuck me dead (weeping).
1351.25 POPOV35: You with me?
1351.27 POPOV36: Yeah.
1351.30 POPOV35: They did say there were no friendlies.
1351.33 POPOV36: Yeah, I know that thing with the orange panels is going to screw us. They look like orange rockets on top.
1351.48 POPOV35: Your tape still on?
1351.49 POPOV36: Yeah.
1351.54 POPOV35: Mine is end of tape.
Transcript ends.
The transcript of the conversation between two US pilots whose planes attacked a British convoy in southern Iraq in March 2003
Tuesday February 6, 2007
Guardian Unlimited
According to The Sun, which printed the transcript from a cockpit video taken from one of the planes and obtained by the newspaper, this was the attack in which Lance Corporal Matty Hull was killed.
The transcript identifies the pilots of the A-10 planes only as POPOV36 - who fired at the convoy, and who the Sun said was a lieutenant colonel -- and POPOV35, a major.
Also speaking are Manila Hotel, Manila34 and Lightning34, US Marine Corps forward air controllers on the ground and attached to British units. Later, Sky Chief, a US AWAC jet controlling the air battle and COSTA58, a British pilot nearby, also speak.
The times given, from the digital clock on the pilot's display, are in GMT.
Transcript starts:
1336.30 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV from MANILA HOTEL. Can you confirm you engaged that tube and those vehicles?
1336.36 POPOV35: Affirm Sir. Looks like I've got multiple vehicles in reverts at about 800 metres to the north of your arty (artillery) rounds. Can you switch fire, and shift fire, and get some arty rounds on those?
1336.47 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, I understand that those are the impacts you observed earlier on my timing?
1336.51 POPOV35: Affirmative.
1336.52 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, standby. Let me make sure they're not on another mission.
1336.57 POPOV36: Hey, I got a four ship. Looks like we got orange panels on them though. Do we have any friendlies up in this area?
1337.03 MANILA HOTEL: I understand that was north 800 metres.
1337.12 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV, understand that was north 800 metres?
1337.16 POPOV35: Confirm, north 800 metres. Confirm there are no friendlies this far north on the ground.
1337.21 MANILA HOTEL: That is an affirm. You are well clear of friendlies.
1337.25 POPOV35: Copy. I see multiple riveted vehicles. Some look like flatbed trucks and others are green vehicles. Can't quite make out the type. Look like may be ZIL157s [Russian made trucks used by Iraqi army].
1337.36 MANILA HOTEL: Roger. That matches our intel up there. And understand you also have the other fixed wing up this push? For terminal control, if you can.
1337.44 POPOV35: I'd love to. I didn't talk to him yet.
1337.46 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, I believe CASPER is up this push too. Two Super Tomcats.
1337.54 POPOV35: Hey dude.
1337.56 POPOV36: I got a four ship of vehicles that are evenly spaced along a road going north.
1338.04 POPOV36: Look down at your right, 2 o'clock, at 10 o'clock low, there is a, left 10 o'clock low, look down there north along that canal, right there. Coming up just south of the village.
1338.21 POPOV35: Evenly spaced? Where we strafed?
1338.23 POPOV36: No. No. Further east, further west, right now. And there's four or five of them right now heading up there.
1338.29 POPOV35: No, I don't have you visual.
1338.30 POPOV36: I'm back at your 6 - no factor.
1338.31 POPOV35: OK, now where's this canal?
1338.35 POPOV35: Don't hit those F18s that are out there.
1338.38 POPOV36: OK. Right underneath you. Right now, there's a canal that runs north/south. There's a small village, and there are vehicles that are spaced evenly there.
1338.49 POPOV36: They look like they have orange panels on though.
1338.51 POPOV35: He told me, he told me there's nobody north of here.
1338.52 POPOV36: I know. There, right on the river.
1338.53 POPOV35: I see vehicles though, might be our original dudes.
1339.09 POPOV36: They've got something orange on top of them.
1339.10 POPOV35: POPOV for MANILA 3, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.14 MANILA HOTEL: Say again?
1339.15 POPOV35: MANILA HOTEL, is MANILA 34 in this area?
1339.19 MANILA HOTEL: Negative. Understand they are well clear of that now.
1339.23 POPOV35: OK, copy. Like I said, multiple riveted vehicles. They look like flatbed trucks. Are those your targets?
1339.30 MANILA HOTEL: That's affirm.
1339.31 POPOV35: OK.
1339.34 POPOV36: Let me ask you one question.
1339.35 POPOV35: What's that?
1339.45 POPO36: (to MANILA HOTEL) Hey, tell me what type of rocket launchers you got up here.
1339.50 POPOV36: I think they're rocket launchers.
1339.52 MANILA HOTEL: . . . (garbled) You were stepped on, say again.
1339.54 POPOV35: MANILA HOTEL, fire your arty up that 800 metres north, and see how we do.
1340.01 MANILA HOTEL: Roger, standby for shot. They are getting adjustments to the guns now.
1340.34 POPOV35: Copy.
1340.09 POPOV36: Roll up your right wing and look right underneath you.
1340.12 POPOV35: (angry) I know what you're talking about.
1340.13 POPOV36: OK, well they got orange rockets on them.
1340.17 POPOV35: Orange rockets?
1340.17 POPOV36: Yeah, I think so.
1340.18 POPOV35: Let me look.
1340.26 POPOV35: We need to think about getting home.
1340.29 POPOV36: 3.6 is what it says (a fuel measurement).
1340.31 POPOV35: Yeah, I know. I'm talking time wise.
1340.35 POPOV36: I think killing these damn rocket launchers, it would be great. (The tape then becomes garbled)
1340.52 MANILA HOTEL: Yeah, POPOV36, MANILA HOTEL. I've got other aircraft up this push. Not sure they're coming to me. Someone else might be working this freak.
1341.00 POPOV35: Yeah, MANILA34 is working them, break, break.
1340.12 POPOV36: Yeah, I see that, you see I'm going to roll down.
1340.15 MANILA 34: Break, be advised MANILA34 is not working the F18s unless they are trying to check in with me, over.
1341.21 POPOV35: Copy.
1341.24 POPOV36: OK, do you see the orange things on top of them?
1341.32 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL. Are you able to switch to Crimson?
1341.37 POPOV36: POPOV 36 is rolling in.
1341.40 MANILA HOTEL: Tell you what.
1341.41 POPOV35: I'm coming off west. You roll in. It looks like they are exactly what we're talking about.
1341.49 POPOV36: We got visual.
1341.50 POPOV36: OK. I want to get that first one before he gets into town then.
1341.53 POPOV35: Get him - get him.
1341.55 POPOV36: All right, we got rocket launchers, it looks like. Number 2 is rolling in from the south to the north, and 2's in.
1342.04 POPOV35: Get it.
According to The Sun, POPOV36, then puts his A-10 into a dive to strafe the British column, destroying two Scimitar armoured vehicles and killing L/Cpl Hull.
1342.09 - GUNFIRE -
1342.18 POPOV35: I'm off your west.
1342.22 POPOV35: Good hits.
1342.29 POPOV36: Got a visual.
1342.30 POPOV35: I got a visual. You're at your high 10.
1342.31 POPOV36: Gotcha.
1342.30 POPOV36: That's what you think they are, right?
1342.39 POPOV35: It looks like it to me, and I got my goggles on them now.
1342.59 POPOV35: OK, I'm looking at getting down low at this.
1343.13 MANILA HOTEL: POPOV 36 from MANILA HOTEL, guns . . .
1343.17 MANILA HOTEL: To engage those targets in the revetts [slopes].
1343.24 POPOV36: It looks like he is hauling ass. Ha ha. Is that what you think they are?
1343.34 POPOV36: 1-2
1343.35 POPOV35: It doesn't look friendly.
1343.38 POPOV36: OK, I'm in again from the south.
1343.40 POPOV35: Ok.
1343.47 - GUNFIRE -
1343.54 LIGHTNING 34: POPOV 34, LIGHTNING 34.
1344.09 POPOV35: POPOV 35, LIGHTNING 34 GO.
1344.12 LIGHTNING 34: Roger, POPOV. Be advised that in the 3122 and 3222 group box you have friendly armour in the area. Yellow, small armoured tanks. Just be advised.
1344.16 POPOV35: Ahh shit.
1344.19 P0POV35: Got a - got a smoke.
1344.21 LIGHTNING 34: Hey, POPOV34, abort your mission. You got a, looks we might have a blue on blue situation.
1344.25 POPOV35: Fuck. God bless it.
1344.29 POPOV35: POPOV 34.
1344.35 POPOV35: Fuck, fuck, fuck.
1344.36 MANILA 34: POPOV34, this is MANILA 34. Did you copy my last, over?
1344.39 POPOV35: I did.
1344.47 POPOV35: Confirm those are friendlies on that side of the canal.
1344.51 POPOV35: Shit.
1344.58 MANILA 34: Standby POPOV.
1345.04 POPOV36: God dammit.
1344.14 MANILA HOTEL: Hey POPOV 36, from MANILA HOTEL.
1344.25 MANILA 34: OK POPOV. Just west of the 3-4 easting. On the berm up there, the 3422 area is where we have our friendlies, over.
1344.39 POPOV35: All right, POPOV 35 has smoke. Let me know how those friendlies are right now, please.
1344.45 MANILA 34: Roger, standby.
1344.49 POPOV35: Gotta go home dude.
1344.50 POPOV36: Yeah, I know. We're fucked.
1345.54 POPOV35: Shit.
1346.01 POPOV36: As you cross the circle, you are 3 o'clock low.
1346.03 POPOV35: Roger.
1346.12 POPOV35: POPOV 35 is bingo. Let us know what's happening.
13446.15 MANILA HOTEL: Roger. We are getting that information for you right now. Standby.
1346.20 POPOV36: Fuck.
1346.47 MANILA 34: POPOV, this is MANILA 34 over.
1346.51 POPOV35: Go.
1346.55 MANILA 34: POPOV 4, MANILA 34 over.
1347.01 POPOV35: Go.
1347.02 MANILA 34: We are getting an initial brief that there was one killed and one wounded, over.
1347.09 POPOV35: Copy. RTB (return to base).
1347.18 POPOV35: I'm going to be sick.
1347.24 POPOV36: Ah fuck.
1347.48 POPOV35: Did you hear?
1347.51 POPOV36: Yeah, this sucks.
1347.52 POPOV35: We're in jail, dude.
1347.59 POPOV36: Aaaahhhh.
1348.12 SKY CHIEF: MANILA this is SKY CHIEF over.
1348.18 MANILA34: This is MANILA 34, send SKY CHIEF.
1348.22 COSTA58: SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.25 MANILA HOTEL: SKY CHIEF, this is MANILA HOTEL.
1348.30 COSTA58: SKY CHIEF, SKY CHIEF. COSTA 58.
1348.41 SKY CHIEF: Relaying for TWINACT, the A-10s are running against friendlies.
1348.47 COSTA58: POPOV 35, this is COSTA58. Relaying message for TWINACT. Abort, abort.
1348.54 SKY CHIEF: MANILA how copy A-10s are running against friendlies. Abort. Over.
1349.07 COSTA58: From TWINACT, abort, abort.
1349. 11 POPOV35: POPOV 35 aborting.
1349.14 COSTA58: We will relay that back to TWINACT.
1349.18 POPOV36: Fuck. God fucking shit.
1350.21 POPOV36: Dammit. Fucking damn it. 1351.17 P0POV36: God dammit. Fuck me dead (weeping).
1351.25 POPOV35: You with me?
1351.27 POPOV36: Yeah.
1351.30 POPOV35: They did say there were no friendlies.
1351.33 POPOV36: Yeah, I know that thing with the orange panels is going to screw us. They look like orange rockets on top.
1351.48 POPOV35: Your tape still on?
1351.49 POPOV36: Yeah.
1351.54 POPOV35: Mine is end of tape.
Transcript ends.
Bitter tales of combat mistakes
There is a long military history of deaths at the hands of 'friends', Peter Walker notes
While it is of absolutely no consolation to the grieving family of Lance Corporal Matty Hull, the phenomenon now generally known as "friendly fire" has been part of warfare for centuries, and is in fact probably less of a threat than ever for most troops.
According to British writer Geoffrey Regan, author of Backfire, a history of friendly fire, it was first recorded as long as ago as the Peloponnesian war in the fourth century BC.
Estimates of such losses in the past have, of course, been incredibly hard to assess. However, in both world wars countless incidents were recorded of soldiers firing on their comrades or other allies in the confusion of battle.
One set of figures surmises that around 75,000 French troops in the second world war were killed or seriously injured in this way. Just over 15% of all US deaths in the war were thought to have come about through friendly fire, with a similar figure for Vietnam.
Since the first Gulf war in 1991, deaths through what the US and British militaries now call "blue on blue" incidents, have been far more widely reported.
This is partly due to the fewer overall numbers of western military casualties, but also because of the perceived horror of soldiers facing rapid, overwhelming attacks from "friendly" aircraft without being able to communicate the mistake in time, as seemingly happened with L/Cpl Hull's patrol in southern Iraq on March 28, 2003.
In the first Gulf war, nine out of the 47 British combat deaths were due to friendly fire, with the corresponding figure for US forces being 35 out of 148 deaths.
The proportion for UK troops in the current Iraq conflict is thus far lower, although the true story of their deaths is sometimes not known until an inquest is held. Five days before L/Cpl Hull died, the pilot and navigator of a British Tornado GR4 were killed when their plane was shot down close to the Kuwaiti border by an American Patriot missile.
A day later, British tank commander Sergeant Steve Roberts was shot dead by a colleague trying to help him as he struggled with an Iraqi protester near Basra. One day after that, two crew members in a British Challenger 2 died near Basra when they were mistakenly fired on by comrades in another tank.
Then, five days afterwards, Royal Marine Christopher Maddison was killed when his river launch was hit by gunfire south of Basra. At an inquest in November last year, the coroner criticised communication failures which led to him being shot at by Royal Engineers who thought his boat was an enemy craft. As well as the furore surrounding the death of L/Cpl Hull, the US military has suffered a pair of significant PR blows over "friendly fire" in recent years.
In April 2002, two US F-16 pilots mistakenly bombed a Canadian infantry unit in Afghanistan, killing four soldiers and injuring eight.
Then in April 2004, Army Ranger Pat Tillman - celebrated for giving up a multimillion-dollar American football contract to join the military - was killed by gunfire in Afghanistan. It later emerged he had been killed by friendly fire during what a US army investigator called an act of "gross negligence".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007019,00.html
There is a long military history of deaths at the hands of 'friends', Peter Walker notes
While it is of absolutely no consolation to the grieving family of Lance Corporal Matty Hull, the phenomenon now generally known as "friendly fire" has been part of warfare for centuries, and is in fact probably less of a threat than ever for most troops.
According to British writer Geoffrey Regan, author of Backfire, a history of friendly fire, it was first recorded as long as ago as the Peloponnesian war in the fourth century BC.
Estimates of such losses in the past have, of course, been incredibly hard to assess. However, in both world wars countless incidents were recorded of soldiers firing on their comrades or other allies in the confusion of battle.
One set of figures surmises that around 75,000 French troops in the second world war were killed or seriously injured in this way. Just over 15% of all US deaths in the war were thought to have come about through friendly fire, with a similar figure for Vietnam.
Since the first Gulf war in 1991, deaths through what the US and British militaries now call "blue on blue" incidents, have been far more widely reported.
This is partly due to the fewer overall numbers of western military casualties, but also because of the perceived horror of soldiers facing rapid, overwhelming attacks from "friendly" aircraft without being able to communicate the mistake in time, as seemingly happened with L/Cpl Hull's patrol in southern Iraq on March 28, 2003.
In the first Gulf war, nine out of the 47 British combat deaths were due to friendly fire, with the corresponding figure for US forces being 35 out of 148 deaths.
The proportion for UK troops in the current Iraq conflict is thus far lower, although the true story of their deaths is sometimes not known until an inquest is held. Five days before L/Cpl Hull died, the pilot and navigator of a British Tornado GR4 were killed when their plane was shot down close to the Kuwaiti border by an American Patriot missile.
A day later, British tank commander Sergeant Steve Roberts was shot dead by a colleague trying to help him as he struggled with an Iraqi protester near Basra. One day after that, two crew members in a British Challenger 2 died near Basra when they were mistakenly fired on by comrades in another tank.
Then, five days afterwards, Royal Marine Christopher Maddison was killed when his river launch was hit by gunfire south of Basra. At an inquest in November last year, the coroner criticised communication failures which led to him being shot at by Royal Engineers who thought his boat was an enemy craft. As well as the furore surrounding the death of L/Cpl Hull, the US military has suffered a pair of significant PR blows over "friendly fire" in recent years.
In April 2002, two US F-16 pilots mistakenly bombed a Canadian infantry unit in Afghanistan, killing four soldiers and injuring eight.
Then in April 2004, Army Ranger Pat Tillman - celebrated for giving up a multimillion-dollar American football contract to join the military - was killed by gunfire in Afghanistan. It later emerged he had been killed by friendly fire during what a US army investigator called an act of "gross negligence".
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2007019,00.html
Trading Spotlight
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 27.508.826 von Heizkessel am 08.02.07 12:46:41Erschütternde Videos.....
DurchsuchenBeitrag zu dieser Diskussion schreiben
Zu dieser Diskussion können keine Beiträge mehr verfasst werden, da der letzte Beitrag vor mehr als zwei Jahren verfasst wurde und die Diskussion daraufhin archiviert wurde.
Bitte wenden Sie sich an feedback@wallstreet-online.de und erfragen Sie die Reaktivierung der Diskussion oder starten Sie eine neue Diskussion.
Meistdiskutiert
| Wertpapier | Beiträge | |
|---|---|---|
| 269 | ||
| 82 | ||
| 79 | ||
| 59 | ||
| 52 | ||
| 49 | ||
| 48 | ||
| 47 | ||
| 41 | ||
| 41 |
| Wertpapier | Beiträge | |
|---|---|---|
| 35 | ||
| 31 | ||
| 28 | ||
| 26 | ||
| 23 | ||
| 23 | ||
| 22 | ||
| 21 | ||
| 19 | ||
| 18 |
