Japan, Australien, Israel, Taiwan, Süd Korea und Chile in die NATO? - 500 Beiträge pro Seite
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Interessante Gedankenspiele anlässlich einer Studie von Aznars think tank FAES.
Israel in NATO?
By DANIEL PIPES
Colin Powell, when secretary of state, once called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization "the greatest and most successful alliance in history." It's hard to argue with that description, for NATO so successfully waged and won the Cold War, it did not even have to fight.
But this greatest alliance is now in the throes of what Jose Maria Aznar, the former prime minister of Spain, calls "possibly the greatest and most serious crisis in its entire history." A "climate of perpetual crisis," he writes, results from a perceived loss "of the organization's raison d' tre, the lack of a mission."
The origins of this crisis are simple to explain. From its founding in 1949 until the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, NATO served as the main instrument to contain Soviet expansionism. After vanquishing the Soviet threat, its mission changed; in the 1990s, NATO became a vehicle for voluntarily sending forces to promote regional security in places like Bosnia and Kosovo.
And what now, post-9/11? In a short, brilliant, and operational study, NATO: An Alliance for Freedom, published by Aznar's think-tank, Fundaci n para el An lisis y los Estudios Sociales, or FAES, we learn that containing the Soviet Union was not the organization's founding principle. Rather, NATO was imbued with the more positive goal "to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilization of [the member states'] peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law."
Proof that NATO was always mandated to defend democracy against more than Communism can be found in its having forgone the strategic value of Spanish territory and its military force so long as that country remained under the thumb of Francisco Franco's fascist government. Only after he died in 1975 and the government became democratic did Spain get an invitation to join the alliance in 1981.
ONE INDICATION of what NATO's new focus should be came a day after 9/11, when NATO for the first time ever in its 52-year history invoked Article V of its founding treaty, with its attack-on-one-is-an-attack-on-all provision. Thus did NATO, after a decade of "war as social work," abruptly awake to the threat of radical Islam.
Aznar and the FAES team build on that critical decision, stating that "Islamist terrorism is a new shared threat of a global nature that places the very existence of NATO's members at risk."
Recalling the totalitarian ideologies of the 1930s, they correctly warn that "We should take [Islamist] ambitions very seriously, no matter how ridiculous or delirious they may seem."
With real insight, they also stress that terrorism "is only the war-like part of a much more far-reaching offensive against the liberal and democratic world." NATO's mission, therefore, must be "to combat Islamic jihadism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction mainly, but not exclusively, among Islamic groups and governments." This means "placing the war against Islamic jihadism at the center of the Allied strategy" and that defeating Islamic jihadism will remain the organization's "key mission" for many years.
A SECOND key recommendation in NATO: An Alliance for Freedom: That NATO invite for full membership countries that are both liberal democracies and able and willing to contribute to the war against Islamic jihadism. The study emphasizes bringing Israel into the Alliance as "an extremely important step," and it endorses Japan and Australia for full membership. I might propose, in addition, Taiwan, South Korea, and Chile. To encourage other, struggling, states, the study suggests an associate membership for countries like Columbia and India. To which I suggest that Mexico and Sri Lanka could join their ranks.
One topic that FAES does not explicitly take up but hints at: that NATO could replace the United Nations as the key world body. As the UN sinks from one low spot to ever-slimier depths, it becomes increasingly obvious that for an international organization to behave in an adult manner requires limiting its membership to democratic states. A new organization could be created from scratch, to be sure, but it is easier, cheaper, and quicker to build on an existing structure especially one with proven capabilities. NATO offers itself as the obvious candidate, especially as reconceptualized by FAES.
Aznar and his team have produced the best plan yet for confronting radical Islam. Will politicians take it up?
The writer, based in Philadelphia, is director of the Middle East Forum.
www.DanielPipes.org
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=115919336…
Israel in NATO?
By DANIEL PIPES
Colin Powell, when secretary of state, once called the North Atlantic Treaty Organization "the greatest and most successful alliance in history." It's hard to argue with that description, for NATO so successfully waged and won the Cold War, it did not even have to fight.
But this greatest alliance is now in the throes of what Jose Maria Aznar, the former prime minister of Spain, calls "possibly the greatest and most serious crisis in its entire history." A "climate of perpetual crisis," he writes, results from a perceived loss "of the organization's raison d' tre, the lack of a mission."
The origins of this crisis are simple to explain. From its founding in 1949 until the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991, NATO served as the main instrument to contain Soviet expansionism. After vanquishing the Soviet threat, its mission changed; in the 1990s, NATO became a vehicle for voluntarily sending forces to promote regional security in places like Bosnia and Kosovo.
And what now, post-9/11? In a short, brilliant, and operational study, NATO: An Alliance for Freedom, published by Aznar's think-tank, Fundaci n para el An lisis y los Estudios Sociales, or FAES, we learn that containing the Soviet Union was not the organization's founding principle. Rather, NATO was imbued with the more positive goal "to safeguard the freedom, common heritage and civilization of [the member states'] peoples, founded on the principles of democracy, individual liberty and the rule of law."
Proof that NATO was always mandated to defend democracy against more than Communism can be found in its having forgone the strategic value of Spanish territory and its military force so long as that country remained under the thumb of Francisco Franco's fascist government. Only after he died in 1975 and the government became democratic did Spain get an invitation to join the alliance in 1981.
ONE INDICATION of what NATO's new focus should be came a day after 9/11, when NATO for the first time ever in its 52-year history invoked Article V of its founding treaty, with its attack-on-one-is-an-attack-on-all provision. Thus did NATO, after a decade of "war as social work," abruptly awake to the threat of radical Islam.
Aznar and the FAES team build on that critical decision, stating that "Islamist terrorism is a new shared threat of a global nature that places the very existence of NATO's members at risk."
Recalling the totalitarian ideologies of the 1930s, they correctly warn that "We should take [Islamist] ambitions very seriously, no matter how ridiculous or delirious they may seem."
With real insight, they also stress that terrorism "is only the war-like part of a much more far-reaching offensive against the liberal and democratic world." NATO's mission, therefore, must be "to combat Islamic jihadism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction mainly, but not exclusively, among Islamic groups and governments." This means "placing the war against Islamic jihadism at the center of the Allied strategy" and that defeating Islamic jihadism will remain the organization's "key mission" for many years.
A SECOND key recommendation in NATO: An Alliance for Freedom: That NATO invite for full membership countries that are both liberal democracies and able and willing to contribute to the war against Islamic jihadism. The study emphasizes bringing Israel into the Alliance as "an extremely important step," and it endorses Japan and Australia for full membership. I might propose, in addition, Taiwan, South Korea, and Chile. To encourage other, struggling, states, the study suggests an associate membership for countries like Columbia and India. To which I suggest that Mexico and Sri Lanka could join their ranks.
One topic that FAES does not explicitly take up but hints at: that NATO could replace the United Nations as the key world body. As the UN sinks from one low spot to ever-slimier depths, it becomes increasingly obvious that for an international organization to behave in an adult manner requires limiting its membership to democratic states. A new organization could be created from scratch, to be sure, but it is easier, cheaper, and quicker to build on an existing structure especially one with proven capabilities. NATO offers itself as the obvious candidate, especially as reconceptualized by FAES.
Aznar and his team have produced the best plan yet for confronting radical Islam. Will politicians take it up?
The writer, based in Philadelphia, is director of the Middle East Forum.
www.DanielPipes.org
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=2&cid=115919336…
Wo liegt der eigentlich, dieser Nordatlantik 
#2
Weit weg von der Türkei, und die sind ja auch Mitglied in der NATO...
Weit weg von der Türkei, und die sind ja auch Mitglied in der NATO...
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.397.733 von Blue Max am 04.10.06 14:25:43Vielleicht sollte der Iran auch beitreten
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.397.673 von ShanghaiSchwengel am 04.10.06 14:22:42die frage zeigt mal wieder, wie unflexibel und erstarrt im hergebrachten denken man in linksliberalhausen auf die welt blickt. es gab auch mal einen "club of rome" der sich nicht nur mit den antiken stätten der italienischen hauptstadt beschäftigte, auch die doha runde widmet sich dingen, die außerhalb von katar passieren. wenn´s die sache erleichtert, könnte man die veranstaltung club der freien weltmeere, oder globale initiative der freien welt nennen, das klingt vielleicht etwas schwülstig, es wird sicher noch bessere namen geben.
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Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.399.810 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 15:58:36Das soll ein ernstgemeinter Vorschlag sein? Taiwan soll in die NATO. Da könnte jemand was dagegen haben. Israel ist ja faktisch schon Mitglied.
An Alliance for Freedom . Erinnert doch stark an die Liste von Ländern, die laut USA den Irakkrieg unterstützt haben. Mit jämmerlichem Ausgang. Die sollten sich lieber einmal inhaltliche Gedanken machen anstatt dauernd die Begriffe "freedom, liberal, democracy" etc. zu missbrauchen. Wobei der Vorschlag die NATO in den Club der freien Weltmeere umzubennnen durchaus für etwas Entspannung sorgen könnte.
Da könnte jemand was dagegen haben. Israel ist ja faktisch schon Mitglied. An Alliance for Freedom . Erinnert doch stark an die Liste von Ländern, die laut USA den Irakkrieg unterstützt haben. Mit jämmerlichem Ausgang. Die sollten sich lieber einmal inhaltliche Gedanken machen anstatt dauernd die Begriffe "freedom, liberal, democracy" etc. zu missbrauchen. Wobei der Vorschlag die NATO in den Club der freien Weltmeere umzubennnen durchaus für etwas Entspannung sorgen könnte.
Taiwan soll in die NATO. Da könnte jemand was dagegen haben. Israel ist ja faktisch schon Mitglied.
ich finde die idee immer besser, wenn die mitglieder wären, und scheich kara ben nemsi wieder mal auf die idee kommen würde, israel anzugreifen, dann setzt es halt was von allen seiten, und wenn prinzessin li si was dagegen hat, daß ihre abtrünnige familie weiterhin nicht zuhause essen möchte, dann möchte ich mal sehen, ob prinzessin li si einen weltkrieg riskieren würde.
ich finde die idee immer besser, wenn die mitglieder wären, und scheich kara ben nemsi wieder mal auf die idee kommen würde, israel anzugreifen, dann setzt es halt was von allen seiten, und wenn prinzessin li si was dagegen hat, daß ihre abtrünnige familie weiterhin nicht zuhause essen möchte, dann möchte ich mal sehen, ob prinzessin li si einen weltkrieg riskieren würde.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.401.943 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 17:20:44Die Frage ist ja wer hier einen Weltkrieg riskieren will und welche Politik einen solchen verhindern hilft.
möööp... die frage ist, ob europa bereit ist, überhaupt noch für irgendwas zu kämpfen.
Südafrika fehlt noch. Und warum denn nur in die NATO? Wenn schon, dann auch gleich in die EU. Auf die paar kommts auch nicht mehr drauf an. Kann ja trotzdem EU (Erdunion) bleiben.
egal, ob mit oder ohne süd-afrika, warum altern wir immer mehr, auch im denken? europa macht heute immer mehr den eindruck eines ideenlosen clubs von rentnern, die nur mit der verwaltung des eigenen wohlstandes beschäftigt sind, und deren liberalität allmählich von innen her abstirbt.
egal, ob praktikabel oder schwachsinnig, warum kommt bei uns niemand auf idee, sich zusammenzutun und in einer gemeinsamen anstrengung (dschihad
) mal alle eben diktaturen innnerhalb der nächsten 20 jahre zu beseitigen? außer diktatoren in den hintern zu kriechen, um unsere wirtschaft nicht zu beschädigen, und zuzuschauen, wie halbfreie oder unfreie länder wie russland und china allmählich sich den kuchen samt teller einverleiben, hat doch außer die türkei ins boot zu holen niemand mehr eine idee.
warum kommt bei uns niemand auf idee, sich zusammenzutun und in einer gemeinsamen anstrengung (dschihad ) mal alle eben diktaturen innnerhalb der nächsten 20 jahre zu beseitigen?
Du und andere Bekämpfer des Islamofaschismus haben sich hier im Board doch wiederholt für Diktaturen in Saudi-Arabien, Ägypten, Pakistan etc. ausgesprochen, da man ja nur so die bösen islamistischen Massen in Schach halten könne.
Letztlich sind doch die Sprüche von den Demokratien, die die Freiheit lieben, nur Propaganda. Die USA sind auch deshalb unbeliebt, weil sie absolut unglaubwürdig sind. Europa sollte mehr Verantwortung übernehmen. Da sind wir uns einig.
Du und andere Bekämpfer des Islamofaschismus haben sich hier im Board doch wiederholt für Diktaturen in Saudi-Arabien, Ägypten, Pakistan etc. ausgesprochen, da man ja nur so die bösen islamistischen Massen in Schach halten könne.
Letztlich sind doch die Sprüche von den Demokratien, die die Freiheit lieben, nur Propaganda. Die USA sind auch deshalb unbeliebt, weil sie absolut unglaubwürdig sind. Europa sollte mehr Verantwortung übernehmen. Da sind wir uns einig.
Europa und Verantwortung... Selten sehr so gelacht
Noch so ein Eurabiabefürworter, diesmal aus Schanghai
Noch so ein Eurabiabefürworter, diesmal aus Schanghai
Israel in die EU aufzunehmen wäre gar nicht so abwegig, besser jedenfalls, als die ganzen Habenichtsländer der letzten Zeit.
Israel hat ein Wirtschaftswachstum von über 6% jährlich.
Israel hat ein Wirtschaftswachstum von über 6% jährlich.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.402.731 von ShanghaiSchwengel am 04.10.06 17:53:08die amis haben einiges böse versemmelt, keine frage, aber kein grund nicht mal mit ner kehrtwende anzufangen. im übrigen habe ich nur musharraf ein langes leben gewünscht, damit seine raketen im silo schön das kopftuch aufbehalten.
das problem ist natürlich, daß in arabischen ländern bei freien wahlen die hirnis an die macht kommen würden, und die mögen uns in der regel nicht besonders. für das problem fällt mir auch keine lösung ein. es gibt aber noch genügend andere penner auf der welt, die ihre leute auspressen, umbringen und den reichtum alleine verspeisen, vielleicht könnte man ja mit denen mal anfangen, und für kopftuchhausen denken wir uns dann noch was aus.
das problem ist natürlich, daß in arabischen ländern bei freien wahlen die hirnis an die macht kommen würden, und die mögen uns in der regel nicht besonders. für das problem fällt mir auch keine lösung ein. es gibt aber noch genügend andere penner auf der welt, die ihre leute auspressen, umbringen und den reichtum alleine verspeisen, vielleicht könnte man ja mit denen mal anfangen, und für kopftuchhausen denken wir uns dann noch was aus.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.402.964 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 18:02:59die Amis haben nichts versemmelt, in 5 Jahren werden alle froh sein, dass Saddam gestürzt wurde. Und der Terror wird einen anderen Spielplatz suchen müssen...
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.402.945 von nichtdie am 04.10.06 18:02:15(neulich im interview, irgendein israelischer wirtschaftsmensch)
israel hat eine entwickelte volkswirtschaft. das problem israels ist gar nicht die mangelnde freiheit an waren- und dienstleistungsverkehr in ihrer region. selbst mit ländern, mit denen ein friedensvertrag besteht wie z.b. ägypten ist der handel so groß wie mit island. für die produkte israels gibt es bei ihren nachbarn kaum einen markt, insofern könnte man sich mal überlegen, ob man israel nicht an mehr teilnehmen lässt, als am eurovision songcontest.
israel hat eine entwickelte volkswirtschaft. das problem israels ist gar nicht die mangelnde freiheit an waren- und dienstleistungsverkehr in ihrer region. selbst mit ländern, mit denen ein friedensvertrag besteht wie z.b. ägypten ist der handel so groß wie mit island. für die produkte israels gibt es bei ihren nachbarn kaum einen markt, insofern könnte man sich mal überlegen, ob man israel nicht an mehr teilnehmen lässt, als am eurovision songcontest.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.112 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 18:09:35israel muss nicht mit Arabs handeln, sie haben sehr viele Abnehmer in Amerika und Europa.
Ein syrischer Bekannter hat mir sogar erzählt, daß er israelische Software über Umweg Deutschland umdeklariert einführt
Ein syrischer Bekannter hat mir sogar erzählt, daß er israelische Software über Umweg Deutschland umdeklariert einführt
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.108 von nichtdie am 04.10.06 18:09:27keiner weint saddam eine träne nach, aber die amis haben in der islamischen welt und nicht nur dort auf jahrzehnte die idee der demokratie und der freiheit beschädigt und den hass auf den westen richtig angefacht. bush ist heute in der ganzen welt radioaktiv. natürlich kann sich das auch mal wieder ändern, die karawane fögt ja angeblich immer dem stärksten kamel. hier geht es aber nicht um unterwerfung irgendwelcher völker, sondern, und das ist ja immer bushs lieblingsthema, "spreading democracy, spreading freedom".
daß er mit seiner lügerei und selbstüberschätzung die welt spaltet, freunde entfremdet, feinde moralisch aufgebaut, das iranische regime gestärkt hat, das kann er in zwei jahren wohl kaum wieder aufholen.
daß er mit seiner lügerei und selbstüberschätzung die welt spaltet, freunde entfremdet, feinde moralisch aufgebaut, das iranische regime gestärkt hat, das kann er in zwei jahren wohl kaum wieder aufholen.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.112 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 18:09:35Gibt doch schon avocados und kiwis aus israel im supermarkt.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.232 von nichtdie am 04.10.06 18:13:54es gibt einige israelische produkte, die auf "made in australia" oder sonstwas umgeklebt werden, um nach ägypten oder andere länder exportiert werden zu können.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.361 von Heizkessel am 04.10.06 18:19:12islamiswche Welt und die Demokratie sind ein Widerspruch in sich
man sollte den Islam an sich einfach boykottieren
man sollte den Islam an sich einfach boykottieren
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.474 von nichtdie am 04.10.06 18:24:21Vora allem das erdöl
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.560 von sham69 am 04.10.06 18:28:10es wäre jedenfalls keine schlechte idee, wenn wir uns weitestgehend unabhängig machen könnten vom arabischen öl.
warum sollen wir auch, über den umweg saudisches königshaus, die pulverisierung unserer bahnhöfe mitfinanzieren? mir leuchtet diese strategie nicht besonders ein.
warum sollen wir auch, über den umweg saudisches königshaus, die pulverisierung unserer bahnhöfe mitfinanzieren? mir leuchtet diese strategie nicht besonders ein.
Sagt mal, wenn die dann alle beitreten, könnten wir dann nicht klammheimlich austreten, oder meint ihr das würde einer merken ?
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.403.802 von Blue Max am 04.10.06 18:38:33warum schon gehen, bevor die party richtig angefangen hat?
#26
Die Schweizer sind ja auch nicht dabei und denen geht es prächtig.
Die Schweizer sind ja auch nicht dabei und denen geht es prächtig.
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.415.641 von Blue Max am 05.10.06 10:39:07die schweiz ist ja auch gut gesichert von sie umgebenen nato-ländern. versuch doch mal die schweiz zu erobern, die einzige möglickeit bestünde über den seeweg, hier soll die schweizer marine nicht so gut aufgestellt sein.
#28
die schweiz ist ja auch gut gesichert von sie umgebenen nato-ländern
Genau wie wir. Ausser der Schweiz sind ja alle unsere Nachbarn in der NATO...
die schweiz ist ja auch gut gesichert von sie umgebenen nato-ländern
Genau wie wir. Ausser der Schweiz sind ja alle unsere Nachbarn in der NATO...
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 24.415.827 von Blue Max am 05.10.06 10:49:03von dieser bauernschlauen drückebergermentalität halte ich überhaupt nichts. die schweiz hockt wegen ihrer dämlichen bank- und steuergesetze wie die made im speck. wenn denen mal, was nicht zu erwarten ist, ein paar privilegien zusammengestrichen würden, dann würden sie sich wahrscheinlich auch umgucken. möchte mal wissen, wo die mit ihrem neutralitätsmist bleiben, wenn bei ihnen in basel oder zürich der bahnhof oder flughafen in die luft fliegt, oder ein flugzeug in eines der chemiewerke scheppert. da helfen ihnen ihre gewehre im schrank und ihre kuckucksuhren auch nicht viel weiter.
#30
Das wird aber wohl nicht passieren. Denn auch die Araber legen ihr Geld in der Schweiz an...
die schweiz hockt wegen ihrer dämlichen bank- und steuergesetze wie die made im speck
Fragt sich eher, ob wir in D nicht "dämlich" sind, weil wir uns nicht die gleichen Gesetze geben ?!
Das wird aber wohl nicht passieren. Denn auch die Araber legen ihr Geld in der Schweiz an...
die schweiz hockt wegen ihrer dämlichen bank- und steuergesetze wie die made im speck
Fragt sich eher, ob wir in D nicht "dämlich" sind, weil wir uns nicht die gleichen Gesetze geben ?!
Jan. 31, 2007 20:54 | Updated Jan. 31, 2007 21:25
Peretz discusses cooperation with NATO
By YAAKOV KATZ
Amir Peretz made history Wednesday after becoming the first Israeli defense minister to visit NATO headquarters in Brussels. During his visit, Peretz met with NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and discussed ways to enhance cooperation between Israel and the western military alliance.
During the two-hour meeting, Peretz, who spoke through translators, affirmed his intention to attend an informal gathering in Spain next week of defense ministers from Middle Eastern countries that are members of NATO's Mediterranean Dialogue, a 10-year-old forum for political consultations and practical cooperation between countries of the Mediterranean area including Morocco, Algeria, Egypt and Jordan.
Peretz also confirmed Israel's intention to dispatch a high-ranking Navy officer to Naples in the coming months where he will participate in NATO's anti-terror Operation Active Endeavor.
NATO launched Operation Active Endeavor in the wake of 9/11 and has succeeded in bringing a number of Mediterranean countries to Naples to share intelligence information concerning naval terror and suspicious ships in the region.
Peretz and de Hoop Scheffer also discussed the possibility of incorporating Israeli defense industries into NATO forums on the development of anti-terror technology. Spain, a member of NATO, is in the midst of developing a laser system that will be capable of detecting explosives from a distance.
Peretz emphasized the Iranian threat during the meeting and urged de Hoop Scheffer to back further international pressure on Teheran in an effort to stop its nuclear program. "2007 is a critical year for the diplomatic efforts that are being made to stop Iran's nuclear program," Peretz told the NATO chief.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467859557&pag…
Peretz discusses cooperation with NATO
By YAAKOV KATZ
Amir Peretz made history Wednesday after becoming the first Israeli defense minister to visit NATO headquarters in Brussels. During his visit, Peretz met with NATO Secretary-General Jaap de Hoop Scheffer and discussed ways to enhance cooperation between Israel and the western military alliance.
During the two-hour meeting, Peretz, who spoke through translators, affirmed his intention to attend an informal gathering in Spain next week of defense ministers from Middle Eastern countries that are members of NATO's Mediterranean Dialogue, a 10-year-old forum for political consultations and practical cooperation between countries of the Mediterranean area including Morocco, Algeria, Egypt and Jordan.
Peretz also confirmed Israel's intention to dispatch a high-ranking Navy officer to Naples in the coming months where he will participate in NATO's anti-terror Operation Active Endeavor.
NATO launched Operation Active Endeavor in the wake of 9/11 and has succeeded in bringing a number of Mediterranean countries to Naples to share intelligence information concerning naval terror and suspicious ships in the region.
Peretz and de Hoop Scheffer also discussed the possibility of incorporating Israeli defense industries into NATO forums on the development of anti-terror technology. Spain, a member of NATO, is in the midst of developing a laser system that will be capable of detecting explosives from a distance.
Peretz emphasized the Iranian threat during the meeting and urged de Hoop Scheffer to back further international pressure on Teheran in an effort to stop its nuclear program. "2007 is a critical year for the diplomatic efforts that are being made to stop Iran's nuclear program," Peretz told the NATO chief.
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1167467859557&pag…
Wenn die eingewechselt werden, wer geht dann raus?
der rechtsausleger liebermann ist sogar für einen eu beitritt israels.
Lieberman pushes Israel to join EU
By TOVAH LAZAROFF
Stumbling blocks to European Union membership such as the possibility that Israel might have to drop its Law of Return or the fact that Israel is physically located on the Asian continent have not deterred Israel Beiteinu head and Minister for Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman from pushing to make what many would call a "pipe dream" into reality within the next five years.
While the Israeli has not formally asked for membership in the 27 member body of European states and the EU does not view it as a possibility at this time, Lieberman has still put it high on his agenda for security, economic and cultural reasons.
Lieberman's JPost blog: We need to be part of EU, NATO
On Thursday, Lieberman is set to debate the matter with the European Union's Ambassador to Israel Ramiro Cibrian-Uzal on the Russian television station RTV1.
Lieberman's interest in the issue leaves EU officials in Brussels shaking their heads.
"Accession is not an option now," said Christian Leffler, the outgoing director of the Middle East and Southern Mediterranean Department for the European Commission in Brussels.
Joining the EU as a member state would likely mean that Israel would have to drop one of the key cornerstones of the its identity as a Jewish state, the Law of Return, which grants immediate citizenship to Jews only, said Leffler. As a result, he said, it is unlikely that Israel would even want to join the union.
"I'm not sure the Israeli government or Israeli public opinion would be ready to take on everything that membership means," Leffler told The Jerusalem Post during a recent visit to Israel.
To become a EU member, one has to balance a complex set of rights and obligations that reach quite far into society, said Leffler. Laws that would have to be changed or amended could include those that govern immigration, the free movement of people and services as well as civil liberties, he said.
Israel, for example, he said, would have to open its doors to workers from the EU who would want to come and live here, Leffler said.
There would also be some problematic military issues such as the policy of targeted assassinations, a tactic that Israel has used in Gaza and the Palestinian territories to eliminate terrorists, Leffler said.
Moreover, there is the basic physical reality that Israel is located on a different continent altogether, he noted.
"Geography is a challenge," said Leffler as he stated the obvious. "You are not in Europe."
It's true, he said, that the laws which govern admittance into the EU, including those that relate to citizenship and free movement of people, can be and have been challenged in court. But he warned it could be a long and cumbersome process.
To date, he said, no country has been accepted for membership that has been outside the continent. He added that it was his understanding that there were laws that restricted membership to countries geographically located within the European continent.
The EU, for example, rejected a membership bid by Morocco on the grounds that it was not a European country.
It's also unclear if the European Union wants to become larger at this time, said Leffler. The EU is still working to integrate the 10 new members who joined in 2004 and the additional ones that entered the union this month.
"It is creaking under the weight of its own success," said Leffler.
None of these facts have deterred Lieberman from his pursuit of the matter.
In spite of the high value that he has placed on Israel's identity as a Jewish state, he is not concerned by the potential conflict between EU membership and the Law of Return. Nor is he stopped by the possibility that Israel would have to amend its laws to allow for an influx of Europeans including Muslim citizens of the continent to live and work here.
He and one of his advisers both told the Post they believed that Israel could hold on to the Law of Return and join the EU. His adviser said there were a number of EU countries with citizenship and immigration restrictions that were similar to those of Israel. Legal exceptions, he said, could be made which would allow Israel to hold on to the restrictions that it needs to maintain its character as a Jewish state.
Lieberman told the Post that he was drawn by the cultural and democratic link that exists between Israel and the EU, as well as the economic and security benefits that would be gained from such a union.
Given the strained and hostile relations Israel has with its neighbors, it would do better to position itself as a member of a group of nations with whom it more naturally belongs. That's particularly true in light of the terrorist threat that equally threatens both Israel and Europe, he said.
He also defended his position in a blog entry he wrote for the Post earlier this month.
"Today's world is dividing over values. On the one side is the free, democratic world, and on the other side is the radical, fundamentalist world.
"We might have disagreements with Europe and the international community over foreign policy, but we share the same values system that is the target of the radical, fundamentalist war against the West," Lieberman wrote.
Moreover, Israel is physically very close to Europe, said Lieberman. At its nearest point, "The EU is only half-an-hour away from Israel," Lieberman said.
Still, Israel's former ambassador to the European Union and academic expert on European affairs Avi Primor dismissed the notion with a laugh.
"It's ridiculous," Primor told the Post. Israel has not asked to be a member of the European Union. It would not want to be and the Union would not accept it as a candidate, Primor said.
The notion gets revived once in a while but only by Israeli politicians, "to make themselves sound interesting."
"We are not ready for it and we are not ripe for it," said Primor.
But the idea has the support of legal expert Amnon Rubinstein from the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya.
Rubinstein, like Lieberman, is a fan of Israel attaining EU membership. More to the point, he told the Post, it was possible from a legal perspective.
Israel may have to amend some aspects of its immigration policy, but it could hold on to the Law of Return, Rubinstein said.
The EU rule of equality on citizenship issues is not applied across the board to European countries. A number of these countries, such as Greece, Germany and Finland, have their own version of a law which prioritizes the return of ethnic groups from those countries.
More to the point, he said, the rule of equality doesn't apply to immigration and naturalization unless you discriminate against a certain group. It is acceptable to use special legislation to favor repatriation, Rubinstein said.
"I would like Israel to become part of the European family of nations," Rubinstein said.
It would give Israel added validity as a country if it joined the EU and it would make it harder for countries like Iran to threaten to attack it, said Rubinstein.
There are those in the EU who believe that culture and economics, rather than geography, should be a test for membership, said Rubinstein. From that perspective, Israel is a better fit than some of the new members, he said.
When he was in Israel at the Seventh Annual Herzliya conference earlier this month, former Spanish prime minister Jose Marie Aznar said, "Israel is located in the Middle East but it is not part of the Middle East, it is part of the West."
Tommy Steiner, the executive secretary of the Atlantic Forum, an advocacy group that pushes for closer ties between Israel and Europe and NATO, however, said that even though Israel was a good candidate for membership it didn't mean that it should pursue that course.
In the short term, it's not feasible, he said. One needs only to look at Turkey, which first applied for membership 20 years ago, but has yet to succeed in that endeavor, Steiner added.
Israel would do better to strengthen and expand its already existing ties without actually joining the EU, Steiner said. He noted, for example, that Norway and Switzerland have close ties with the EU but are not member states.
"I think that there is potential for a considerable upgrade of relations," he said.
There would be a potential monetary price, said Steiner, who added that Israel today is the only country in the world that has free trade agreements with both the US and Europe. But if Israel joined the EU it could jeopardize its free trade agreement with the United States, he said.
Leffler agreed.
"Gaining acceptance is always far more difficult" than using already existing institutions, said Leffler.
He said that there were a number of avenues that Israel already uses to strengthen ties with Europe such as the Association Agreement which was fully put in place in 2000, and which allows for free trade between Israel and the EU. In 2006, for example, Israel exported $10 billion worth of goods and imported $14 billion from the EU.
In addition, there is an Action Plan of 2005 that exists under the European Neighborhood Policy that helps implement and augment the Association Agreement.
The Action Plan of the ENP offers economic, cultural and governmental cooperation across a broad range of issues including terrorism, the environment, education, trade, health, culture, economics, and even allows for Israel and the EU to work on joint strategies to combat anti-Semitism.
That Action Plan, is "the best vehicle you have now" to move closer to the EU, Leffler said. Similar plans exist with 17 other countries that border Europe, but "There is no other country in this region that is better able to take advantage of the ENP than Israel," said Leffler.
Many of the ENP countries still have to develop market economies and build democratic structures before they can take full advantage of the program, Leffler said.
Israel, in contrast, already has the elements it needs to fully utilize the program, he said. In that sense, Israel is already an equal partner with Europe, Leffler added. "You have relations with us that are of the same kind that Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=3&cid=116746785…
Lieberman pushes Israel to join EU
By TOVAH LAZAROFF
Stumbling blocks to European Union membership such as the possibility that Israel might have to drop its Law of Return or the fact that Israel is physically located on the Asian continent have not deterred Israel Beiteinu head and Minister for Strategic Affairs Avigdor Lieberman from pushing to make what many would call a "pipe dream" into reality within the next five years.
While the Israeli has not formally asked for membership in the 27 member body of European states and the EU does not view it as a possibility at this time, Lieberman has still put it high on his agenda for security, economic and cultural reasons.
Lieberman's JPost blog: We need to be part of EU, NATO
On Thursday, Lieberman is set to debate the matter with the European Union's Ambassador to Israel Ramiro Cibrian-Uzal on the Russian television station RTV1.
Lieberman's interest in the issue leaves EU officials in Brussels shaking their heads.
"Accession is not an option now," said Christian Leffler, the outgoing director of the Middle East and Southern Mediterranean Department for the European Commission in Brussels.
Joining the EU as a member state would likely mean that Israel would have to drop one of the key cornerstones of the its identity as a Jewish state, the Law of Return, which grants immediate citizenship to Jews only, said Leffler. As a result, he said, it is unlikely that Israel would even want to join the union.
"I'm not sure the Israeli government or Israeli public opinion would be ready to take on everything that membership means," Leffler told The Jerusalem Post during a recent visit to Israel.
To become a EU member, one has to balance a complex set of rights and obligations that reach quite far into society, said Leffler. Laws that would have to be changed or amended could include those that govern immigration, the free movement of people and services as well as civil liberties, he said.
Israel, for example, he said, would have to open its doors to workers from the EU who would want to come and live here, Leffler said.
There would also be some problematic military issues such as the policy of targeted assassinations, a tactic that Israel has used in Gaza and the Palestinian territories to eliminate terrorists, Leffler said.
Moreover, there is the basic physical reality that Israel is located on a different continent altogether, he noted.
"Geography is a challenge," said Leffler as he stated the obvious. "You are not in Europe."
It's true, he said, that the laws which govern admittance into the EU, including those that relate to citizenship and free movement of people, can be and have been challenged in court. But he warned it could be a long and cumbersome process.
To date, he said, no country has been accepted for membership that has been outside the continent. He added that it was his understanding that there were laws that restricted membership to countries geographically located within the European continent.
The EU, for example, rejected a membership bid by Morocco on the grounds that it was not a European country.
It's also unclear if the European Union wants to become larger at this time, said Leffler. The EU is still working to integrate the 10 new members who joined in 2004 and the additional ones that entered the union this month.
"It is creaking under the weight of its own success," said Leffler.
None of these facts have deterred Lieberman from his pursuit of the matter.
In spite of the high value that he has placed on Israel's identity as a Jewish state, he is not concerned by the potential conflict between EU membership and the Law of Return. Nor is he stopped by the possibility that Israel would have to amend its laws to allow for an influx of Europeans including Muslim citizens of the continent to live and work here.
He and one of his advisers both told the Post they believed that Israel could hold on to the Law of Return and join the EU. His adviser said there were a number of EU countries with citizenship and immigration restrictions that were similar to those of Israel. Legal exceptions, he said, could be made which would allow Israel to hold on to the restrictions that it needs to maintain its character as a Jewish state.
Lieberman told the Post that he was drawn by the cultural and democratic link that exists between Israel and the EU, as well as the economic and security benefits that would be gained from such a union.
Given the strained and hostile relations Israel has with its neighbors, it would do better to position itself as a member of a group of nations with whom it more naturally belongs. That's particularly true in light of the terrorist threat that equally threatens both Israel and Europe, he said.
He also defended his position in a blog entry he wrote for the Post earlier this month.
"Today's world is dividing over values. On the one side is the free, democratic world, and on the other side is the radical, fundamentalist world.
"We might have disagreements with Europe and the international community over foreign policy, but we share the same values system that is the target of the radical, fundamentalist war against the West," Lieberman wrote.
Moreover, Israel is physically very close to Europe, said Lieberman. At its nearest point, "The EU is only half-an-hour away from Israel," Lieberman said.
Still, Israel's former ambassador to the European Union and academic expert on European affairs Avi Primor dismissed the notion with a laugh.
"It's ridiculous," Primor told the Post. Israel has not asked to be a member of the European Union. It would not want to be and the Union would not accept it as a candidate, Primor said.
The notion gets revived once in a while but only by Israeli politicians, "to make themselves sound interesting."
"We are not ready for it and we are not ripe for it," said Primor.
But the idea has the support of legal expert Amnon Rubinstein from the Interdisciplinary Center in Herzliya.
Rubinstein, like Lieberman, is a fan of Israel attaining EU membership. More to the point, he told the Post, it was possible from a legal perspective.
Israel may have to amend some aspects of its immigration policy, but it could hold on to the Law of Return, Rubinstein said.
The EU rule of equality on citizenship issues is not applied across the board to European countries. A number of these countries, such as Greece, Germany and Finland, have their own version of a law which prioritizes the return of ethnic groups from those countries.
More to the point, he said, the rule of equality doesn't apply to immigration and naturalization unless you discriminate against a certain group. It is acceptable to use special legislation to favor repatriation, Rubinstein said.
"I would like Israel to become part of the European family of nations," Rubinstein said.
It would give Israel added validity as a country if it joined the EU and it would make it harder for countries like Iran to threaten to attack it, said Rubinstein.
There are those in the EU who believe that culture and economics, rather than geography, should be a test for membership, said Rubinstein. From that perspective, Israel is a better fit than some of the new members, he said.
When he was in Israel at the Seventh Annual Herzliya conference earlier this month, former Spanish prime minister Jose Marie Aznar said, "Israel is located in the Middle East but it is not part of the Middle East, it is part of the West."
Tommy Steiner, the executive secretary of the Atlantic Forum, an advocacy group that pushes for closer ties between Israel and Europe and NATO, however, said that even though Israel was a good candidate for membership it didn't mean that it should pursue that course.
In the short term, it's not feasible, he said. One needs only to look at Turkey, which first applied for membership 20 years ago, but has yet to succeed in that endeavor, Steiner added.
Israel would do better to strengthen and expand its already existing ties without actually joining the EU, Steiner said. He noted, for example, that Norway and Switzerland have close ties with the EU but are not member states.
"I think that there is potential for a considerable upgrade of relations," he said.
There would be a potential monetary price, said Steiner, who added that Israel today is the only country in the world that has free trade agreements with both the US and Europe. But if Israel joined the EU it could jeopardize its free trade agreement with the United States, he said.
Leffler agreed.
"Gaining acceptance is always far more difficult" than using already existing institutions, said Leffler.
He said that there were a number of avenues that Israel already uses to strengthen ties with Europe such as the Association Agreement which was fully put in place in 2000, and which allows for free trade between Israel and the EU. In 2006, for example, Israel exported $10 billion worth of goods and imported $14 billion from the EU.
In addition, there is an Action Plan of 2005 that exists under the European Neighborhood Policy that helps implement and augment the Association Agreement.
The Action Plan of the ENP offers economic, cultural and governmental cooperation across a broad range of issues including terrorism, the environment, education, trade, health, culture, economics, and even allows for Israel and the EU to work on joint strategies to combat anti-Semitism.
That Action Plan, is "the best vehicle you have now" to move closer to the EU, Leffler said. Similar plans exist with 17 other countries that border Europe, but "There is no other country in this region that is better able to take advantage of the ENP than Israel," said Leffler.
Many of the ENP countries still have to develop market economies and build democratic structures before they can take full advantage of the program, Leffler said.
Israel, in contrast, already has the elements it needs to fully utilize the program, he said. In that sense, Israel is already an equal partner with Europe, Leffler added. "You have relations with us that are of the same kind that Switzerland, Norway and Iceland have."
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=3&cid=116746785…
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 27.334.269 von Heizkessel am 31.01.07 22:51:50Die säkulare Demokratie Israel wäre herzlich willkommen in Europa, leider passt sie nicht so recht zum Rest (was könnte den Staat Israel sympathischer machen als die Feindschaft der pseudolinken Grünen und aller anderen religiösen Eiferer - seien sie Juden, Christen oder Moslems?)
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 27.334.396 von cajadeahorros am 31.01.07 23:02:20ob sich liebermann als neuer oberstratege sich ob des demographischen wandels in europa nicht irrt?
was ist mit der freizügikeit, dann könnten ja 10 mio araber plötzlich nach israel einwandern und es sich dort gemütlich machen.
was ist mit der freizügikeit, dann könnten ja 10 mio araber plötzlich nach israel einwandern und es sich dort gemütlich machen.
Immer rein damit in die NATO, ist doch gar nicht so abwegig.
Die Kapverdischen Inseln haben ja auch schon ein Beitrittsgesuch an die EU gerichtet (das ist kein Witz!!!).
Die Kapverdischen Inseln haben ja auch schon ein Beitrittsgesuch an die EU gerichtet (das ist kein Witz!!!).
Antwort auf Beitrag Nr.: 27.334.425 von Heizkessel am 31.01.07 23:05:19Wenn ganz Europa wie Israel wäre dann könnten die Araber gerne einwandern, denn dann keiner gegen Karikaturen des Propheten klagen, andererseits würde auch kein Papst mit Milliarden von Euronen vollgestopft.
Israel in der EU wäre die reinste Frischzellenkur.
Cool facts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tDDkvXSI8
Cool facts:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5tDDkvXSI8
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