Zum professionelleren Umgang mit OTC - Werten ... - 500 Beiträge pro Seite

[Brad]

Salve!

Nachdem mich Gilligan vor einigen Monaten auf ADVC aufmerksam machte und ich neben diesem Wert dann auch mit WINR Erfolg hatte, begann ich, mich etwas intensiver mit den hier angepriesenen OTC Werten zu beschäftigen.
Stück für Stück setzte sich aus den Postings von Jetsia Dax, MacMax und den Anderen, ein Bild vom Umgang mit OTC Werten zusammen.

Mir scheint, als säßen auf der anderen Seite des Großen Teichs ein Haufen Makler, der durch gezielte Desinformation unwissende Zocker und blutige Anfänger in Investments treiben, die Kurse hochpushen und dann durch ebenso gezielte Verkäufe die Preise hiernach wieder kaputt machen. Nach dem Einsammeln der Scherben geht das Spiel dann von vorne los.

Das Schema der Kursverläufe ähnelt sich ebenfalls immer wieder, es ist sogar eine Analogie zur Teilnehmerzahl am Ragingbull Board festzustellen. Ist der Kurs kurz vor dem Zusammenbruch, dann häufen sich die Aufschreie und Rufe nach positiven Nachrichten. Gleichzeitig werden die Spreads breiter und die Umsätze gehen zurück. Irgend wie scheint es aber immer abgesprochene Kanäle zu geben, innerhalb derer ein Reversal stattfindet. Die Kunst ist wohl, diese vorher zu berechnen.
Vom Grundsatz her holen sich die Späteinsteiger scheinbar immer eine blutige Nase.

Nun mag es sein, daß hier die Phantasie mit mir durchgeht, vielleicht wäre es auch hilfreich, eines der hier vorgestellten englischsprachigen Bücher zu lesen.


Darum mein Vorschlag, hier ein paar Hintergrundinformationen konzentriert auszutauschen, um uns mit dem Maklergebaren und sonstigen Eigenheiten dieses hochinteressanten Segments vertraut zu machen!
Welche Info-Quellen nutzt Ihr (z.B. Stockreporter, Ragingbull, etc.), mit wem makelt Ihr, wovor könnt Ihr warnen?

Klar, alles wurde hier schonmal angesprochen, aber vielleicht gibt es für jeden trotzdem nochmal etwas neues zu entdecken!

Prosper and gamble,

Brad

P.s.: Ist ein Jetsia-Dax eigentlich m o. w? (Bin kein Trekki sodern ein Jedi )

[Q._2011]

Hallo,

das von dir geschilderte Szenario habe ich gerade am eigenen Leib miterlebt. Ich habe Intasys Aktien (INTA OTC). Und Deine Schilderung der Ereignisse passt bis ins Detail. Kurs von 3$ im Dez. 99 bis auf 14$ im März und jetzt 4 1/2$. Bei der betrachtung des Kursverfalls kann man erkennen das diese Aktie professionell geshortet wurde. Ich hoffe das dieses Spiel wieder von vorne losgeht und mein Aktien zumindest wieder auf 8$ steigen.

MfG Q.

(Trekki - Qiu)

[german]

GUTE IDEE ! Mache mal den Anfang, frei nach dem Motto, wenn man schon über den tisch gezogen wird, will man wenigstens wissen, wie es geht.

Dann poste ich noch mal den Beitrag von wwwillion (ich hoffe, es ist ihm recht und es gerät nicht in Vergessenheit)

(Aus einem kanadischen Board (stockhouse).)

wwwillion


THE DEADLY ART OF STOCK MANIPULATION....
In every profession, there are probably a dozen or two major
rules. Knowing them cold is what separates the professional from the
amateur. Not knowing them at all? Well, let`s put it this way: How
safe would you feel if you suddenly found yourself piloting (solo) a
Boeing 747 as it were landing on an airstrip? Unless you are a
professional pilot, you would probably be frightened out of your wits
and would soil your underwear. Hold that thought as you read this
essay because I will explain to you how market manipulation works.
What the professionals and the securities regulators know and
understand, which the rest of us do not, is this.
"RULE NUMBER ONE: ALL SHARP PRICE MOVEMENTS --
WHETHER UP OR DOWN -- ARE THE RESULT OF ONE OR MORE
(USUALLY A GROUP OF) PROFESSIONALS MANIPULATING THE SHARE
PRICE."
This should explain why a mining company finds something
good and "nothing happens" or the stock goes down. At the same
time, for NO apparent reason, a stock suddenly takes off for the sky!
On little volume! Someone is manipulating that stock, often with an
unfounded rumor.

In order to make these market manipulations work, the
professionals assume: (a) The Public is STUPID and (b) The Public
will mainly buy at the HIGH and (c) The Public will sell at the LOW.
Therefore, as long as the market manipulator can run crowd control,
he can be successful.

Let`s face it: The reason you speculate in such markets is that
you are greedy AND optimistic. You believe in a better tomorrow and
NEED to make money quickly. It is this sentiment which is exploited
by the market manipulator. He controls YOUR greed and fear about a
particular stock. If he wants you to buy, the company`s prospects
look like the next Microsoft. If the manipulator wants you to desert
the sinking ship, he suddenly becomes very guarded in his remarks
about the company, isn`t around to glowingly answer questions about
the company and/or GETS issued very bad news about the company.
Which brings us to the next important rule.

"RULE NUMBER TWO: IF THE MARKET MANIPULATOR WANTS
TO DISTRIBUTE (DUMP) HIS SHARES, HE WILL START A GOOD NEWS
PROMOTIONAL CAMPAIGN."

Ever wonder why a particular company is made to look like the
greatest thing since sliced bread? That sentiment is manufactured.
Newsletter writers are hired -- either secretly or not -- to cheerlead
a stock. PR firms are hired and let loose upon an unsuspecting public.
Contracts to appear on radio talk shows are signed and implemented.
Stockbrokers get "cheap" stock to recommend the company to their
"book" (that means YOU, the client in his book). An advertising
campaign is rolled out (television ads, newspaper ads, card deck
mailings). The company signs up to exhibit at "investment
conferences" and "gold shows" (mainly so they can get a little
"podium time" to hype you on their stock and tell you how "their
company is really different" and "not a stock promotion.") Funny
little "hype" messages are posted on Internet newsgroups by the
same cast of usual suspects. The more, the merrier. And a little
"juice" can go a long way toward running up the stock price.

The HYPE is on. The more clever a stock promoter, the better
his knowledge of the advertising business. Little gimmicks like
"positioning" are used. Example: Make a completely unknown
company look warm and fuzzy and appealing to you by comparing it
to a recent success story, Diamond Fields or Bre-X Minerals. That is
the POSITIONING gospel, authored by Ries and Trout (famous for
"Avis: We Want To Be #1" and "We Try Harder" and other such
slogans). These advertising/PR executives must have stumbled onto
this formula after losing their shirts speculating in a few Canadian
stock promotions! The only reason you have been invited to this
seemingly incredible banquet is that YOU are the main course. After
the market manipulator has suckered you into "his investment,"
exchanging HIS paper for YOUR cash, the walls begin to close in on
you. Why is that?

"RULE NUMBER THREE: AS SOON AS THE MARKET
MANIPULATOR HAS COMPLETED HIS DISTRIBUTION (DUMPING) OF
SHARES, HE WILL START A BAD NEWS OR NO NEWS CAMPAIGN."

Your favorite home-run stock has just stalled or retreated a bit
from its high. Suddenly, there is a news VACUUM. Either NO news or
BAD rumors. I discovered this with quite a few stocks. I would get
LOADS of information and "hot tips." All of a sudden, my pipeline was
shut-off. Some companies would even issue a news release
CONDEMNING me ("We don`t need `that kind of hype` referring to
me!). Cute, huh? When the company wanted fantastic hype circulated
hither and yon, there would be someone there to spoon-feed me. The
second the distribution phase was DONE....ooops! Sorry, no more
news. Or, "I`m sorry. He`s not in the office." Or, "He won`t be back
until Monday."

The really slick market manipulators would even seed the
Internet news groups or other journalists to plant negative stories
about that company. Or start a propaganda campaign of negative
rumors on all available communication vehicles. Even hiring a
"contrarian" or "special PR firm" to drive down the price. Even hiring
someone to attack the guy who had earlier written glowingly about
the company. (This is not a game for the faint-hearted!)

You`ll also see the stock drifting endlessly. You may even
experience a helpless feeling, as if you were floating in outer space
without a lifeline. That is exactly HOW the market manipulator wants
you to feel. See Rule Number Five below. He may also be doing this to
avoid the severe disappointment of a "dry hole" or a "failed deal."
You`ll hear that oft-cried refrain, "Oh well, that`s the junior minerals
exploration business... very risky!" Or the oft-quoted statistic, "Nine
out of 10 businesses fail each year and this IS a Venture Capital
Startup stock exchange." Don`t think it wasn`t contrived. If a geologist
at a junior mining company wasn`t optimistic and rosy in his promise
of exploration success, he would be replaced by someone who was!
Ditto for the high-tech deal, in a world awash with PhD`s.

So, how do you know when you are being taken? Look again at
Rule #1. Inside that rule, a few other rules unfold which explain how
a stock price is manipulated.

"RULE NUMBER FOUR: ANY STOCK THAT TRADES HUGE VOLUME
AT HIGHER PRICES SIGNALS THE DISTRIBUTION PHASE."

When there was less volume, the price was lower. Professionals
were accumulating. After the price runs, the volume increases. The
professionals bought low and sold high. The amateurs bought high
(and will soon enough sell low). In older books about market
manipulation and stock promotion, which I`ve recently studied, the
markup price referred to THREE times higher than the floor. The
floor is the launchpad for the stock. For example, if one looks at the
stock price and finds a steady flatline on the stock`s chart of around
10 cents, then that range is the FLOOR. Basically, the markup phase
can go as high as the market manipulator is capable of taking it.
From my observations, a good markup should be able to run about
five to ten times higher than the floor, with six to seven being
common. The market manipulator will do everything in his power to
keep you OUT OF THE STOCK until the share price has been marked
up by at least two-three times, sometimes resorting to "shaking you
out" until after he has accumulated enough shares. Once the markup
has begun, the stock chart will show you one or more spikes in the
volume -- all at much higher prices (marked up by the manipulator,
of course). That is DISTRIBUTION and nothing else.

Example: Look at Software Control Systems (Alberta:XVN), in
which I purchased shares after it had been marked up five times.
There were eight days of 500,000 (plus) shares trading hands, with
one day of 750,000 shares trading hands. Market manipulator(s)
dumping shares into the volume at higher prices. WHENEVER you see
HUGE volume after the stock has risen on a 75 degree angle, the
distribution phase has started and you are likely to be buying in --
at or near the stock`s peak price.

Example: Look at Diamond Fields (TSEFR), which never
increased at a 75 degree angle and did not have abnormal volume
spikes, yet in less than two years ran from C$4 to C$160/share.

Example: Look at Bre-X Minerals (Alberta:BXM), which did not
experience its first 75 degree angle, with huge volume until July
14th, 1995. The next two trading days, BXM went down and stayed
around C$12/share for two weeks. The volume had been 60% higher
nearly a month earlier, with only a slight price increase. Each high
volume and spectacular increase in BXM`s share price was met with a
price retreat and leveling off. "Suddenly," BXM wasn`t trading at
C$2/share; it was at C$170/share.... up 8500% in less than a year!

In both of the above cases, major Canadian newspapers ran
extremely negative stories about both companies, at one time or
another. In each instance, just before another share price run up,
retail investors fled the stock! Just before both began yet another
run up! Successful short-term speculators generally exit any stock run up
when the volume soars; amateurs get greedy and buy at those points.

"RULE NUMBER FIVE: THE MARKET MANIPULATOR WILL
ALWAYS TRY TO GET YOU TO BUY AT THE HIGHEST, AND SELL AT THE LOWEST
PRICE
POSSIBLE."

Just as the manipulator will use every available means to
invite you to "the party," he will savagely and brutally drive you
away from "his stock" when he has fleeced you. The first falsehood
you assume is that the stock promoter WANTS you to make a bundle
by investing in his company. So begins a string of lies that run for as
long as your stomach can take it.

You will get the first clue that "you have been had" when the
stock stalls at the higher level. Somehow, it ran out of steam and you
are not sure why. Well, it ran out of steam because the market
manipulator stopped running it up. It`s over inflated and he can`t
convince more people to buy. The volume dries up while the share
price seems to stall. LOOK AT THE TRADING VOLUME, NOT THE SHARE
PRICE! When earlier, there may have been 500,000 shares trading
each day for eight out of 12 trading days (as in the case of Software
Control Systems), now the volume has slipped to 100,000 shares (or
so) daily. There are some buyers there, enough for the manipulator
to continue dumping his paper, but only so long as he can enlist one
or more individuals/services to bang his drum.

He may continue feeding the promo guys a string of "promises"
and "good news down the road." (Believe me, this HAS happened to
me!) But, when the news finally arrives, the stock price goes THUD!
This is entirely orchestraÿ





"RULE NUMBER SIX: IF THIS IS A REAL DEAL, THEN YOU ARE
LIKELY TO BE THE LAST PERSON TO BE NOTIFIED OR WILL BE DRIVEN
OUT AT THE LOWER PRICES."

Like Jesse Livermore wrote, "If there`s some easy money lying
around, no one is going to force it into your pocket." The same
concept can be more clearly understood by watching the tape. When
a market manipulator wants you into his stock, you will hear LOUD
noises of stock promotion and hype. If you are "in the loop," you will
be bombarded from many directions. Similarly, if he wants you out
of the stock, then there will be orchestrated rumors being circulated,
rapid-fired at you again from many directions. Just as good news
may come to you in waves, so will bad news.

You will see evidence of a VERY sharp drop in the share price
with HUGE volume. That is you and your buddies running for the
exits. If the deal is really for real, the market manipulator wants to
get ALL OF YOUR SHARES or as many as he can... and at the lowest
price he can. Whereas before, he wanted you IN his market, so he
could dump his shares to you at a higher price, NOW when he sees
that this deal IS for real, he wants to pay as little as possible for
those same shares... YOUR shares which he wants to you part with, as
quickly as possible.

The market manipulator will shake you out by DRIVING the
price as low as he can. Just as in the "accumulation" stage, he wants
to keep everything as quiet as possible so he can snap up as many of
the shares for himself, he will NOW turn down, or even turn off, the
volume so he can repeat the accumulation phase.

In the mining business, there seems to always be another "area
play" around the corner. Just as Voisey`s Bay drifted into oblivion,
during the fourth quarter of 1995 and early into 1996, the same
Voisey Bay "wannabees" began striking deals in Indonesia. Some
even used new corporate entities. Same crooks, different shingles.
The accumulation phase was TOP SECRET. The noise level was
deadingly silent. As soon as the insiders accumulated all their shares,
they let YOU in on the secret.

"RULE NUMBER SEVEN: CONVERSELY, YOU WILL OFTEN BE THE
LAST TO KNOW WHEN THIS DEAL SHOWS SIGNS OF FAILURE."

Twenty-twenty hindsight will often show you that there was a
"little stumble" in the share price, just as the "assays were delayed"
or the "deal didn`t go through." Manipulators were peeling off their
paper to START the downslide. And ACCELERATE it. The quick slide
down makes it improbable for your getting out at more than what
you originally paid for the stock... and gives you a better reason for
holding onto it "a little longer" in case the price rebounds. Then, the
drifting stage begins and fear takes over. And unless you have serves of
steel and can afford to wait out the manipulator, you will more than likely
end up selling out at a cheap price.

For the insider, marketmaker or underwriter is obliged to buy back all of
your paper in order to keep his company alive and maintain control of it.
The less he has to pay for your paper, the lower his cost will be to
commence his stock promotion again... at some future date. Even if his
company has no prospects AT ALL, his "shell" of a company has some value
(only in that others might want to use that structure so they can run their
own stock promotion). So, the manipulator WILL buy back his paper. He just
wants to make sure that he pays as little for those shares as possible.

"RULE NUMBER EIGHT: THE MARKET MANIPULATOR WILL
COMPEL YOU INTO THE STOCK SO THAT YOU DRIVE UP ITS PRICE
SHARES."

Placing a Market Order or Pre-Market Order is an amateur`s
mistake, typifying the US investor -- one who assumes that thinly
traded issues are the same as blue chip stocks, to which they are
accustomed. A market manipulator (traders included here) can jack
up the share price during your market order and bring you back a
confirmation at some preposterous level. The Market Manipulator
will use the "tape" against you. He will keep buying up his own paper
to keep you reaching for a higher price. He will get in line ahead of
you to buy all the shares at the current price and force you to pay
MORE for those shares. He will tease you and MAKE you reach for the
higher price so you "won`t miss out." Miss out on what? Getting your
head chopped off, that`s what!

One can avoid market manipulation by not buying during the
huge price spikes and abnormal trading volumes, also known as
chasing the stock to a higher price.

"RULE NUMBER NINE: THE MARKET MANIPULATOR IS WELL
AWARE OF THE EMOTIONS YOU ARE EXPERIENCING DURING A RUN
UP AND A COLLAPSE AND WILL PLAY YOUR EMOTIONS LIKE A
PIANO."

During the run up, you WILL have a rush of greed which
compels you to run into the stock. During the collapse, you WILL
have a fear that you will lose everything... so you will rush to exit.
See how simple it is and how clear a bell it strikes? Don`t think this
formula isn`t tattooed inside the mind of every manipulator. The
market manipulator will play you on the way up and play you on the
way down. If he does it very well, he will make it look like someone
else`s fault that you lost money! Promise to fill up your wallet? You`ll
rush into the stock. Scare you into losing every penny you have in
that stock? You`ll run away screaming with horror! And vow to
NEVER, ever speculate in such stocks again. But many of you still
do.... The manipulator even knows how to bring you back for yet
another play.

What actors! No wonder Vancouver is sometimes called
"Hollywood North."

"FINAL RULE: A NEW BATCH OF SUCKERS ARE BORN WITH
EVERY NEW PLAY."

The Financial Markets are a Cruel, Unkind and Dangerous
Playing Field, one place where the newest amateurs are generally
fleeced the most brutally.... usually by those who KNOW the above
rules.

Just as I have a duty to ensure that each of you understand
how this game is played, YOU now have that same duty to guarantee
that your fellow speculator understands these rules. Just as I would
be a criminal for not making this data known to you, YOU would be
just as criminal to keep it a secret. There will always be an
unsuspecting, trusting fool whom the rabid dogs will tear to shreds,
but it does NOT have to be this way.

IF every subscriber made this essay broadly known to his
friends, acquaintances and family, and they passed it on to their
friends, word of mouth could cause many of these market
manipulators to pause. IF this effort were done strenuously by many,
then perhaps the financial markets could weed out the crooked
manipulators and the promoters could bring us more legitimate
plays.

The stock markets are a financing tool. The companies BORROW
money from you, when you invest or speculate in their companies.
They want their share price going higher so they can finance their
deal with less dilution of their shares... if they are good guys. But,
how would you feel about a friend or family member who kept
borrowing money from you and never repaid it? That would be theft,
plain and simple. So, a market manipulator is STEALING your money.

[Sep]

ist so ne Art Pumpe, was die dort bedienen. Ich beobachte seit geraumer Zeit den Wert UVGI, die postings dort, und was von diesen Postings dann von dort hierher an diesem Bord angeschlagen wird.

Es ist eine erkennbare Systematik dahinter, und sie bedient sich einer ganz bestimmten Art von, naja: Anleger, Zocker etc.

Damit meine ich Leute, die sich instrumentalisieren lassen, mitreißen lassen, das Spiel also eigenlich nicht beherrschen. Sie fundgieren als eine Art Vestärker, oder Brennglas.

Es ertönt der kollektive Ruf nach PR, der sich über mehrere Tage hin verstärkt, und dann kommt etwas PR- mäßiges, und der Kurs kracht zusammen. Heute um 18%. Klar, war ein schlechter tag heute, aber UCGI ist von 18 Werten, die ich verfolge, heute schlechtester. Und dies trotz PR- input.

Der Wert wurde unlängst auf 80 cent hochgezogen, und hat sich seitdem auf 25 verbilligt, im Moment nach 42 wieder zurück auf 35 cent.

Neues Fernziel der hoffenden Gemeinde ist die Veröffentlichung einer eigenen Internet- Seite, Ende April. Für ein e business aus dem Schmuck- Sektor ein merkwürdiges timing.

Der Kurs wird sich in Annäherung dieses Datums wieder fangen, und dann geht das Spiel von vorne los.

Wenn man die postings am Ranging Bull verfolgt, und auch hier bei W-O, dann ist man durchweg der Meinung, mindestens 1 Dollar sehen zu müssen, es werden auch 3 bis 4 Dollar genannt.

Wer das kritisch hinterfragt, wird sofort angemacht.

Dieses letztere scheint mit ein tauglicher Hinweis zu sein für einen emotionalisierten Wert, also einen Wert, er sich im Stadium der Kontrollosigkeit befindet. Da kann man schauen, billig reinzukommen und bei dem kollektiven Ruf nach PR- Nachschub sollte man sich verabschieden.

Insgesamt sind die Umsätze bei 1 bis maximal 1,5 Mio, Anstiege waren hier erst bei 4 Mio Umsatz, die sind im Moment nicht drin.

Die Company strebt - nach deren PR - voll reporting status an, die heutige PR bezieht sich darauf, es gibt aber keine wirklich trenderkennenden Zahlen zu Umsatz, Gewinn, Forecasts, etc.

Also, da ist ein System erkennbar, und man kann es festmachen an einer gewissen Sorte von Anlegern, die sich dabei reinknien, und denen man Sendungsbewußtsein zuerkennen möchte.

Hier entstehen dann Geldpumpen.

Ich bin relativ neu bei den OTC- lern, aber ich probier mal aus, hier an erkanntes Gefälle zu nutzen.

SEP

[jetsia dax]

Hi Brad, may the force be with you!

Die enormen Schwankungen am OTC haben mehrere Ursachen. Zum einen sind dort natürlich unheimlich viele Daytrader und Momentum-player anzutreffen. Zum anderen dürfen die Makler unbegrenzt Leerverkäufe machen (hierzu sind sie aus Wettbewerbsgründen oft sogar gezwungen, grosse Firmen wie E-Trade etc würden den Makler bald fallen lassen, wenn er Orders auch bei sehr grosser Nachfrage nicht füllt). Auch viele Privatinvestoren eröffnen Konten in Kanada und shorten die Aktien. Da am OTC start-ups sind, kommt es häufig zu Verzögerungen oder Pannen im Geschäftsplan, die der ungeduldige OTC-Markt mit stark fallenden Kursen quittiert. Dazu gibt es Leute, die mit allen möglichen Ankündigungen etc die Aktie pushen (hypster) und solche die alles versuchen, um die Aktie schlechtzureden (basher) natürlich nur aus uneigennützigen Gründen ...

Unabhängig von den sonst üblichen Schwankungen kam diese Woche die Abwärtsspirale bei Zwangsliquidierungen durch Käufe auf Kredit sowie der allgemeine Tech stock/Nasdaq Abwärtstrend und der Steuertermin (15.4.) hinzu.

Mein Tip viel lesen, um die Vorgänge besser zu durchschauen. Sich vor dem Kauf soviel es geht über die Aktien informieren. Das Geld nicht auf einmal ausgeben (sondern bei guten Aktien vielleicht in 3 Teile aufteilen, um wieder zuzuschlagen, wenn sich ein Boden bildet). Bei enormen Steigerungen Gewinne mitnehmen. Nicht steilsten Kursanstiegen hinterherlaufen (die kommen oft mit 50 % wieder zurück) erst wenn sich ein Boden bildet wieder kaufen etc.


Hier ein gutes posting dazu aus dem Ragingbull Board:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


ALL LONG TERM INVESTORS SHOULD READ THISfound on NSKY board - posted by Dansuki)

Weekly Thoughts: Learn How to Play the Game: Invest Wisely and Trade Smartly

The savvy long-term investors never chase stocks up. For the most part that is momentum players and
daytraders where most of it or what follows is dumb money. Instead the long-term investors use a couple of
simple strategies in order to position themselves. One is to find a stock no one immediately sees has huge
potential and accumulate. Long-term investors are not interested in trading against the public mind or the
dumb money. That`s where the majority of the money can be made but even more can be made if the base of
a stock is held extremely strong by investors. However the second is not to doubt the research which is the
underlying basis for going long and holding.

More and more investors are winning the game nowadays despite all bashers that float through the Internet
that has become part of the game. Floor traders of market makers often watch CNBC, news wires and bulletin
boards in order to follow the market during trading session. OTC BB market makers (MMs) don`t use
fundamental and technical analysis. However, what they do realize is a lot of dumb money does use this
newest nitch charting or TA (Technical Analysis) to run a stock either up or down. To the MMs this is like taking
candy from a baby. Simply they will paint the tape and use whatever tactic to affect the charting bands. Thus the
public and dumb money they will have eating out of their hands. Effectively the MMs can show a strong stock
growing weak by manipulating the close price in order to generate selling volume, delaying trading time to
manipulate trading activities, or even stalling the ask without honoring orders to hold a stock price.

MMs follow a simple code of business when making a market in a stock especially an OTC BB. That is the
level that stocks will seek that yields the most volume. Now this is very important because they make money
on the volume buying at the bid and selling at the ask. In other words, by making the market they are buying
low and selling high. Now smart money adheres to that rule, so do all the market makers. They could careless
whether the stock is at $83 or at $0.23. All they care about is the action thus being able to sell stock at the offer
(The high) and buy stock at the bid (The low). To increase their profitability, they make the spread as great as
possible on as many shares as they can especially if the volume falls off.

When they have mostly all "buy" orders, that`s not the price that`s going to yield the most volume. They need
both buy and sells to get the maximum action. Remember, MMs play
the volume. If the volume decreases and there are mostly Buys that become a one way volume, Buy volume.
So what they do is let the stock run up to a price where it runs out of steam. They fill all the buy orders there
that they can and then comes the pullback one way or another naturally or induced. During the pull back they
can buy tons of shares and flip them to those averaging down or trying to catch the bounce. At some price, the
stock will be relatively stable and yield the most volume. Now that is the average price you will see.The
average price is the point where a stock seeks a level where MMs can profit on the most volume. So during the
day that is the price that MMs and momentum/day traders want to see the stock at. Why? Because
they know the public and dumb money was chasing the price thing up. Most of the time, the MMs love a flurry of
Market Orders which is a dead sign of an artificial run or momentum. Merely it is money in the bank for them.
Most get hung in a momentum or day trade or by the tactics of Market makers, who are in the business to
screw the public every chance they get and the NASD is not going to do anything about it. They are merely
making the market liquid is their reasoning.

The market makers have created an added complication to the OTCBB`s chaos of the already volatile intra-day
price movements created by dumb money, momentum and day-traders. MMs can not relate to long-term
holders in the OTC BB. That makes absolutely no sense what so ever. They feel a large
percentage of trades in the OTC BB market consist of short-term or day-trades, MMs merely view the barrage
of buy and sell orders as relatively neutral to the market. How they figure it is when the average dumb money
buys shares in a company, the MMs feel or rather know with some certainty it is very likely that dumb money
will want to sell back those shares relatively quick on the slightest drop.

Now somewhat comfortable with this logic the MMs merely short sells into the buying and attempts to take the
stock down in an effort to "shake out" the weak. Since it is tough to know for sure whether a move is the
beginning of a trend, or a routine shake out, this type of deception works quite well for the MMs. What the
long-termers do to a stock is surprise the MMs because instead of falling the shorting has no effect and the
price goes up. Now that puts the MM at selling low through shorting and thus having to buy high in order to
cover.

Boy, when this happens, the MMs are not very happy ampers. The investors and traders are supposed to be
doing that no them. Now it becomes time to pull out every trick and
tactic in the book in order to attempt to get a Bear Raid at every dollar mark or percent from where the stock
started. Could be a penny in smaller priced securities? What MMs do is give you a chance to make a small
amount of money for your momentum and day trading style by shorting it at these levels and trying to get a
bear raid each time. Each failure is compounding the MMs short position so they let it go to the next level. Now
come more deliberate tactics MMs use to coerce Bear Raid or panic selling.

Once the MM is caught short and the strength of the buy is overpowering the MM will want to cover his short
position. So the MMs call up one of his friendly MMs and says some thing like "the weather is sure rough
today." The MM along with the other "friendly MM initiates a down tick about the
same time. Now this can also be done with a certain amount of shares such as an infamous 100 shares flag.
This down tick gives the illusion of weakness designed to hopefully begin the bear raid of selling. The fickle,
fearful, day trader, momentum and short term begin to sell out allowing
the MM to cover his short position at lower prices. They will move it down quickly to get it to a price of least
financial damage. Problem they have is long-term investors in the OTC BB. They start accumulating and
buying comes flying in when they take it too far thus the MMs took it to
the point of volume again and not only investors the other MMs step in the make money on the spread.

Alas the poor MM does not get to cover. Now comes various tactics like stalling, boxing, or even locking the Bid

and Ask for a while.

Of course, MMs aggressively deny any sort of collusion designed to fix quotes or spreads, but a recent SEC
investigation tells another story which they released on January 11, 1999.

http://www.sec.gov/news/press/99-2.txt

MMs have a vast resource of tactics and it would take probably more than my lifetime to figure them all out.

So how do investors somehow manage to overcome the obvious deception in OTCBB arena? One answer is
indirection trading style by going long which the MMs do not expect. In the war between investors and public
companies on the OTC BB vs the MMs, if the MMs have all the advantages due to position or other factors,
direct confrontation such as momentum or day trading hitting the stock is a definite death sentence.

However, an indirect approach tends to weaken the path of least resistance before slowly overcoming it. The
most effective way is long-term investors slowly accumulating
and holding thus drawing the MMs out of its defenses
making them as naked as their short position. This is war so this slow accumulation and holding for the long
term easily achieves the desired effect to force MMs to cover and knock off the tactics or bury themselves
deeper.

The MMs when caught will especially use every trick and tactic in the book to get a Bear Raid thus playing on
the
individual fear of most people. The MMs feel they have information and position advantages over the investors
as long as the holding of the stock is in weak hands or short term holders. Since they are OTC BB MMs who
believe all OTCBB companies are not worth investing and management is ineffective regardless what is
happening within the company. Furthermore, MMs know they are in the position to
impose a great deal of influence in OTC BB stocks trading when it suits their needs.

This inherent power of position enables the MMs to move the markets at any time up or down. As a result, the
only way to draw them out of their favorable position is going long. Now this does not mean just any company
but to effectively nail the MMs, Longs must find the great company on the floor and accumulate long before the
MM tactics and games begin.

This requires extensive research to find such a rare stock, but once you have found it, you are one up on the
MMs so be prepared for every tactic in the book.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Copyright 1998-2000, analystgroup.com. All rights reserved. Persons may reprint or copy any portion of this
publication, provided any reprint or copy is accompanied by our web address (http://www.analystgroup.com).


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<




Hier sind ein paar weitere interessante postings von "quasar" auf dem NSCT Ragingbull Board:

http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=SMRA&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=SMRA&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…
http://www.ragingbull.com/mboard/boards.cgi?board=NSCT&read=…

Hallo ? Noch da, oder schon eingeschlafen? Ich kann bei Gelegenheit auch noch weitere (zu MM Taktiken, Psychologie etc) reinstellen. Du musst nur sagen, ob du noch mehr verträgst . Trotz der vorherrschenden Daytrader-Mentalität habe ich mir eineige Werte mit -wie ich meine - enormen Potential ausgesucht, die ich langfristig halten möchte.

Tja und trotzdem ich das alles gelesen habe, mache ich immer noch viele, viele Fehler und habe viel zu wenig Geld


P.S.: Jetsia ist ein weiblicher Trill mit einem Dax Symbionten

Live long and prosper

Jetsia

[Pebbles]

An den Darstellungen er Arbeitsweise der Makler ist tatsächlich etwas dran, obwohl es fast unglaubwürdig klinkt.

Ich bin selbst investiert in BLLS, FECC, WINR. Die Kurssprünge sind nach einiger Zeit fast voraussehbar und kalkulierbar. Man kann endweder in kurzer Zeit viel Geld gewinnen, verlieren oder man hat Firmen, die wirklich mittel- bis langfristig ihren Weg machen können und wartet ab.

Ich bin zu günstigen Konditionen bei BLLS und FECC eingestiegen und gut im PLus, obwohl auch diese Aktien von ihren Höhen zurückgekommen sind. Bei WINR bin ich im Minus mit 30 %, halte aber viel von der Firma bzw. dem Management und bleibe dabei.

Es ist aber wichtig, sich nicht auf die Boards zu verlassen, denn dort wird nur gepusht oder niedergemacht (basher). In der Regel ist auch dort das Verhältnis klar:

- Wer Aktien hat, pushed
- Wer Aktien kaufen will macht nieder
- Makler wirken kräftig mit und können hervorragend mit der Gefühlen und Emotionen der Aktionäre umgehen

Wichtig ist es, die wirklichen Aussichten der Firmen zu beurteilen und bei guten Aussichten und gerade mal wieder niedrigen Kursen einzusteigen. Bei meine drei Werten fühle ich mich sehr wohl, da man auch recht viel über diese Firmen nachlesen kann und diese Firmen namhafte Kunden und Kontakte sowie ein excellentes Management haben.

Bei Boards, in denen von 1000%- 10000% Changen gesprochen werden, man aber fast keine Information über die Firma erhält, sollte man eher skeptisch denn euphorisch sein.

[PundtC]

Hy zusammen,
Super Idee mit diesem Thread von dir Brad. Tolle Beiträge bisher, vielleicht können wir ja hier mal ein bisschen über Tradingchancen diskutieren?
Tschau CP

[MacMax]

Hi !

Richtiger Umgang mit OTC Werten ??

Ich versuchs mal meine Erfahrungen anhand von Beispielen die ich selbst mitgemacht habe zu erläutern.

Ich kann nur sagen das ich mit der Strategie bei über 100 % Gewinn die Hälfte zu verkaufen und den Rest erstmal zu halten bisher nicht allzuviel falsch gemachet habe.
Das man mit OTC Werten fette Gewinne machen kann dafür gibt es genug Beispiele meine sind LMGR, NSCT und WIZZF die sich erst durch längeres halten richtig ausgezahlt "haben" bzw. hoffentlich werden.
Klar gibt`s dafür auch Gegenbeispiele wie ASDS bei 12 $ gekauft bei 28 $ Gewinn mitgenommen kurz bis 30 $ seit dem nur noch runter bis auf aktuell 2,75 $ also fast totalverlust (wenn man nicht Gewinne mitgenommen hätte) !!

Wenn ein OTC Wert wirklich gut ist, was man anhand des Bords (viele Fakten, viel Euphorie, wenig Gefühle bzw. negative Posting werden sachlich widerlegt nicht runtergemacht) und "zum Teil" am bisherigen Kursverlaufes sehen kann, gibt es zwar immer wieder Korrekturen doch diese werden bei positiven Umfeld locker wieder weggemacht.

Was mir auch schon aufgefallen ist das wenn nach einem starkem Hype der Wert zwei Tage auf Höchstkurs hält ohne zu steigen ist man fast immer gut beraten erstmal Gewinne mitzunehmen denn dann geht`s meistens erstmal runter.

Außerdem gibt es anscheinend in einer Art "Wellenmuster" größere Geldbewegungen die mal stark in den OTC Markt laufen und dann wieder ablaufen. Doch um das richtig zu beurteilen bin ich noch nicht lang genug dabei.
Ist man in einer Phase in der Geld in den OTC gepumpt wird wird jede NEWS mit zweistelligem +% "belohnt".
In der Phase in der Geld abläuft zählen wirklich nur die richtig guten NEWS alle anderen haben keinerlei Einfluss auf den Kursverlauf wenn Geld abläuft fallen die Kurse einfach.

Die Phase jetzt kommt mir aber schwer vor wie die Zeit vor November bis Januar Letztes Jahr da sind auch die meisten von meinen OTC`s runter damals war ich bei LMGR - 50 %, WINR - 50 % NSCT - 40 % usw. man darf den Langzeitfaktor bei OTC Werten nicht aus den Augen verlieren was bei schnellen Tagesschwanckungen von - 50 % bis + 200 %natürlich nicht einfach ist.

Bei Werten die ich die letzten Monate gekauft habe und bei denn ich überzeugt bin das die abgehen wie ARET, CAMB, XPDN, TNRG, CCGR(E) steh ich im Moment auch bei - 50 %.
Diesmal werde ich aber nachkaufen, was ich letztes Jahr versäumt habe in ein paar Monaten kann ich dann beurteilen ob diese Entscheidung richtig war.
Denn die nächste Phase in der Geld reingepumpt wird kommt auf jedenfall und ich hab mir gesagt wenn ich von einem Wert überzeugt bin werde ich bei spätestens - 50 % nochmal die gleiche Anzahl Aktien holen.

Sonst kann ich Jetsia nur recht geben nicht immer alles Geld das man investieren will auf einmal reinhängen sonder erste Positionen aufbauen dann abwarten und den Kursverlauf beobachten solange der Kurs fällt fallen lassen (Never catching a falling Knife) bei einer Trendwende nachkaufen.

Was auch sehr lustig ist das bei schlechtem Kursverlauf immer die MM Schuld sind ????
Doch die MM haben immer ihre Finger im Spiel, da sie ja die jenigen sind die Kurse machen nur braucht man bei steigendem Kurs niemand der Schuld ist !!!!

Allerdings muss ich zugeben das meine Meinung über OTC`s vor drei Wochen noch einiges "rosiger" ausgesehen hat denn die 100 % Taktik kostet bei einem so negativen Verlauf echt Nerven und Geld.

Hoffe das mein Beitrag etwas fürs Verständnis beiträgt.

Gruss und viele "BUCKS" mit OTC`s

MM

PS: WINR ist ein "typischer OTC Wert" die stehen "ganz sicher" im laufe eines halben Jahres mal bei 15 $ !!!

[Sep]

Sehr gute Beiträge, ich drucke es mir aus.

Ich will nochmal darauf zurückkommen, daß es ein wichtiger Teil des thread war, aus den Erkenntnissen eine eigene, vielleicht auch gemeinsame Strategie entwickeln zu können.

Was haltet Ihr davon?

Die Anweisungen über 100% Gewinne, zur Hälfte mitnehmen, dann die hinweise der verschiedenen zeitpunkte mit hereinschwappendem geld, und dann wieder abfließendem Geld, denen man sich nicht entgegenstellen kann, das ist alles Gold wert, weil es die Unsicherheit der eigenen Beobachtungen beseitigt.

Dafür ließen sich aber sicherlich Kriterien finden, oder sind (mir) auch bekannt. Nur sollte man vielleicht versuchen, gemeinsam eine Taktik zusammenzustellen, also verschiedenste Aspekte des Marktes, Sentiment, usw zusammenzuführen, und dann Aktivitäten über einige wenige Werte zu stülpen.

Das Agieren der MM kann man nicht verhindern, und man sollte es auch gar nicht.

Aber vielleicht kann man das gemeinsam vorhandene Wissen optimieren.
Interesse ?


SEP

[ricoh1]

Hallo Leute ...

hab auch meine "Erfahrungen" mit OTC`s gemacht ..... GCHC hehe ....

bin so ziemlich als letzter eingestiegen .... hehe .. 3,25$ zur Zeit
ein Pinksheet !!! bei ca. 0,30$ ... *g ... nun denn.... hat mich
zwar ein paar Märker gekostet ... aber der Lerneffekt war ziemlich gross

naja ... egal ... hätte da mal ne frage bezüglich "Shortbestände"....
wo kann ich für meinen Aktellen OTC`Wert (GLCP)
die Shortbestände nachfragen ????
gibts da irgen eine Seite im Netz .... würd mich mal bei dem Wert
interessieren ob da einige leute hohe Shortbestände haben ...

seit längerem segeln die von ca 2$ runter auf 0.60 .... ohne irgenwelche
badnews oder so ... eher positive news ...


regards

[PundtC]

Ricoh1,
ich denke diese Phase haben alle die am OTC agieren mehr oder weniger heftig auch erlebt, ich auch.

Zum Thema Marketmaker habe ich hier noch was, leider nur in english, aber sehr aufschlußreich
MillenniumPicks.com - http://www.millenniumpicks.com

The following is an excerpt from MM GAMES The Famous "Month End
Maneuver" We receive dozens of emails from our readers asking the
question: "Why do my OTC stocks all seem to get killed at the end of each
month, and quite often rally the first couple of weeks of the following
month?" Rather than individually responding to them, and to help better
educate the public we want to explain what typically goes on at brokerage
firms at the end of each month, and why.

First of all definitions: MONTH END. Typically the day (either settlement
day or trading day depending on their system of accounting) that a BD
(Broker Dealer - registered as such with the NASD) calculates their paper
gains and losses for the purpose of calculating that firms NET CAPITAL
(disclosed financial position)for FOCUS REPORTS (financial reports filed
with the SEC).

For example:
ABC is short 100,000 shares of XYZ corp - a small, OTC stock trading at
$1.875 bid, $2.125 offer. Their month end is "settlement day" - meaning
trade day plus three (like when you or I have to pay for the stock we buy)
and the date is June 24, 1997 - (making settlement the last day of the
month). In order to enhance their balance sheets (which allows them to
sell or buy more stock against their net capital) they decide to start
hitting (selling) the stock. Here`s the way it looks: They enter an order
to sell 10,000 shares at the
market. The bid was only good for 2000 shares (not surprising since size
buying or selling always shrinks the offer or bid size) so the current
market then becomes: $1.75 - $2.125 ... until they offer stock at $1.875
-making it $1.75 - $1.875... but not for long.. They enter an order to
sell 8000 shares at $1.75 - which was good for 5000 shares this time.

Now the market is: $1.625 - $1.875 .. until they offer down to $1.6875..
and it continues: They see on level two (a trading system that shows the
depth of an OTC market) that there is two bids at $1.625, but the next
level is $1.3125. Ahha! A good target price. They sell another 5000 shares
at $1.625 - each market maker buys 2500 shares and bid down - making the
current price $1.3125 - $1.6875... but low and behold: They offer stock at
$1.375 - making the price $1.3125 - $1.375.. The company is now short a
total of 112,000 shares.. and in one day shows a paper profit of $84,000 -
which
applies to their month end balance sheets! Do this on a couple of stocks
each month and a small BD can end up with several hundred thousand dollars
in additional buying power. The only problem is that it is that you and I
are the ones who get creamed. I know of one savvy investor who buys the
hell out of his small stocks at the end of each month - and is usually
able to sell them at a profit the first few days of the month when the
same market maker stops LEANING ON (doing the above outlined shenanigans)
the stock. So at the end of each trading month, don`t panic and assume
something is wrong with your small stocks! You are probably witnessing the
"MONTH END MANEUVER"

http://www.MillenniumPicks.com

beobachtet mal diese monatsendbewegungen, passen fast immer.

Und MacMax Tip nach 100% erstmal Gewinne mitnehmen ist immer richtig, das hilft nicht zu gierig zu werden, was bei nem Renner auch schon jedem passiert sein dürfte. Dann gibts hinterher wenigstens keinen Katzenjammer.
Tschau CP

[Brad]

Salve!

Hat ja prima hingehauen, mit diesem Thread. Es freut mich natürlich, daß sich unsere Beobachtungen decken, ermöglicht es uns doch, künftig mit mehr Selbstbewußtsein zu agieren.
Mit herkömmlicher Charttechnik kommt man wohl bei solch marktengen Werten nicht weiter, allein die Tendenz und die Umsätze sind haltbare Indikatoren. Mit Hinblick auf das Finanzamt muß ich mich immer wieder mäßigen, nicht wild los zu zocken. Andererseits ist die Gewinnmitnahmeregel sicherlich sinnvoll. Bei 100% Gewinn die Hälfte rausnehmen, bei 50% Verlust dann nochmals nachkaufen. Betrachtet man aber die Charts der nicht mehr ganz jungen OTC Werte, beispielsweise von NPCT, dann sieht man, daß man durchaus auch nochmal ganz nach unten rutscht, bevor eine neue Hype ansteht. WINR erscheint mir als Paradebeispiel eines durch das Management hochgepushten Wertes (täglich leere news).

Ich werde derzeit auch nicht in das fallende Messer greifen und erst wieder kaufen, wenn die Abwärtstendenzen brechen. Ja, so ist das mit den guten Vorsätzen: Hätte ich doch mal dieses, hätte ich doch nur jenes ... Die Ungeduld ist sicherlich unser größter Feind. Wenn nur die Story und das Produkt stimmen, dann kann doch eigentlich nichts schiefgehen. Trotz meiner "hätte ich doch damals"-Gedanken werde ich daher die ADVC-Reste über die Spekulationsfrist retten. Bei WINR gedenke ich das auch so zu tuen, wenn ich auch dem Braten nicht mehr so ganz traue.
Sobald die Tendenzen drehen, sollten wir uns darauf aufmerksam machen. Kann aber wohl noch etwas dauern, der Abgabedruck scheint ja stark zu sein.

Und jetzt quäle ich mich noch durch Eure Englischtexte, furchtbar!

Prosper and gamble,

Brad

P.s.: Muß ich mir unter Trill jetzt Jod-S-11-Körnchen vorstellen, Jetsia?

[Corner]

Hi !!!!

Was mich in diesem Zusammenhang mal interessieren würde ist:

Hab ich eigentlich eine Chance zu Kursen von 0,001 - ca. 0,005 zu
kaufen ? Greifen das alles die Händler ab und ich bin gezwungen
zu z.B. 0,03 oder 0,05 zu kaufen ?

Wenn einer eine Market Order plaziert und mein Limit (0,003) passt,
müsste die Order doch eigentlich einrasten. Ausführungsgarantie hin
oder her. Ich habe immer wieder das Gefühl, dass hier Orders "übergangen"
werden.

Bei diesen Bid Ask Stellungen liegt doch eine ganze Menge Luft dazwischen.

Habt Ihr ähnliche Erfahrungen ?

Gruß

corner

[Brad]

... und hoch damit! Solange die Kurse noch fallen, haben wir Zeit zu lernen und uns vorzubereiten. Wir müssen unsere hart verdiente Kohle ja nicht den Amis für nix und wieder nix in den Rachen werfen.

Auf das der Boden bald gefunden werde,

Brad

[Brem]

Tja, das hoffe ich auch. Meine INCE sind schon im Minus gelandet (sind aber Gratisrestbestände). Im Augenblick
werden OTC Werte ja fast doppelt so stark verprügelt wie andere. Selbst Spazen die ja ein Super Ergebnis
hatten. haben sich fast halbiert. Unglaublich. Ob das wirklich alles MM sind oder Leeverkäufer? Ich sehe es
mal so, wenn der OTC allgemein wieder nach oben dreht dann geht es auch doppelt so schnell wieder nach oben

Hat hier eigentlich jemand Erfahrung mit Werten die von der OTC zu Nasd. wechseln. Wie geht es dann weiter?
Ich denke da an Upgrade oder Hartcourt die ja kurz davor sind?

gruß brem