Ergebnis der Langzeitstudie "Pusher kontra Basher" - 500 Beiträge pro Seite

[meistergurkus]

Über einen Zeitraum von sechs Monaten wurden per Zufallsprinzip Boardbeiträge hinsichtlich ihrer Meinungsrichtung analysiert.
Das Ergebnis war erschreckend.

74 % der Aussagen waren nachweislich übertrieben oder falsch, mit dem Ziel Anleger für eine Aktie zu werben bzw. vom Verkauf abzuhalten.

21 % der Aussagen waren neutral und sachlich. Sie waren begründet und entsprachen der Realität.

04 % der Aussagen hatten einen abwertenden Charakter.

01 % hatten keine Aussagekraft.


Sehr auffällig war, dass bei den Aktien, die am häufigsten diskutiert wurden, die Anzahl der Pusher deutlich höher war als bei anderen Aktien. An der Spitze lag Metabox, gefolgt von Fantastic und Oti.
Das Studienergebnis verdeutlicht, dass in diesen Threads die Beiträge ausserordentlich kritisch betrachtet werden müssen.
Es bestätigte sich hiermit auch der Verdacht, dass o.g. Aktien nur deshalb zu den meisst diskutierten gehören, weil dort auch am häufigsten gepusht wird.

Investoren, die zu den betroffenen Aktien Informationen suchen wird daher nahegelegt, besonders hier eigene Recherche zu betreiben, anstatt blind auf die betrügerischen Machenschaften hereinzufallen.

Mit freundlichen Grüssen
Meistergurkus, Vorsitzender des ISV
(Investorenschutzverband)

[goodluck!]

Danke, wichtige Untersuchung. Belegt noch einmal konkret, was eigentlich jedem klar sein müßte, der die Beiträge mit einigermaßen Grips in der Birne liest.
Qualitativ hochstehend in vielerlei Hinsicht (Inhalt, Atmosphäre = Art des Umgangs miteinander, Vielfalt) ist für mich übrigens der Thread von Shakesbier ("Lanfristinvest&Zockerecke"). Es sollte alles getan werden, um solche Foren zu erhalten und ernstzunehmende Leute für weitere, regelmäßige Beiträge zu motivieren. Ich weiß zwar nicht warum Shakesbier einstellen will, aber hat wohl irgendwas mit "hinter den Kulissen" zu tun!? Sofern möglich, bitte alles tun, damit dieser Thread weiterlebt.
An dieser Stelle auch mein besonderer Dank an NoggerT, Maiestro und A-friend. Wären noch 3-4 andere zu nennen, aber ich will hier keine Hitparade initiieren.
Gruß und Dank für das Aufgreifen dieses Themas - Goodluck!

[ZimtOchse]

@Meistergurkus, Vorsitzender des ISV
HaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHaHa

ciao ZO

[goodluck!]

Stimmt, ZimtOchse,
da hab´ ich vor lauter Begeisterung wohl einige Feinheiten übersehen.
Aber warum sollen nicht auch einmal die Ergebnisse von Nicht-Untersuchungen zutreffen!?
Tschüß - Goodluck!

[junkstro]

@gurkus
Viel Spaß beim Lesen.
ciao ZO



BASHERS (Source at http://sclninvestors.homestead.com/bashers.html )

MOST BASHING HAPPENS ON DISCUSSION BOARDS AND IN CHAT ROOMS;

MOST BASHING HAPPENS IN THE PENNY STOCK AREA OF THE MARKET

BUT IS NOT LIMITED TO THE PENNY STOCKS.

IT HAPPENS EVERYWHERE FOLKS! IT`S A FACT!

(SEE BOTTOM OF THIS PAGE FOR TESTIMONIAL)

LEARNING is a process and an evolution. Learning is not all fluff. Learning is a process of awareness and unfolding development; one must be willing to work at it though.

A year ago when I asked broker friends of mine if the internet message boards will have any affect on a stock. They ALL laughed at me and said those idiots having an affect on a stock !

A TRUTH

IT IS EASIER TO SCARE PEOPLE INTO SELLING THAN IT IS TO INFORM THEM INTO BUYING!

Well I asked those same friends this last week, and the answer from all YES! message boards and "shorts" (some) can manipulate with lies, and deceit.

Now think about that, you have elderly that invest and find their way to the message boards only to see false posts about "SEC Violations" and "Class action suits" or you have a Yuppie with a kid to put in college going to these message boards only to see posts by 15-20 (probably 5 or 6 under alias) "pack of shorts" posting the same false stuff about SEC Violations or lawsuits or "there`s bad news coming out" ....what do you think they will do ?

It`s easier to sell the stock and put the money into the bank for nervous people like the elderly and the Yuppie who needs college funds. THAT`S WHO THE PACK OF SHORTS PRAY ON AND DEPEND ON.

They bet on a stock to go down-not up! Understand? And they have just as much money and risk as you. But they have the edge of fear, lies, falsehoods to post and pray on the nervous. Longs don`t have that.

Lesson 1: Remember, BASHERS NEVER BASH A BAD STOCK. Watch the board for stocks with no potential. They never have any bashers. Bashers only go after stocks that are going upwards or have excellent potential to go up. Bashers get left behind, so they want to bring the price down to be able to get in at a great price.

Lesson 2: BASHERS ALWAYS BRING UP OLD NEWS THAT YOU HAVE HEARD MANY TIMES. New startup companies always have a few bits of bad news. The basher will post this over and over again. The stupid basher will try to make the old news a bit fresher to try to fool you.

Lesson 3: BASHERS POST MANY TIMES A DAY. They try to wear you out. They comment on everything, every other post, and can answer every question. THEY KNOW IT ALL! There is no positive comment they won`t bash. They try to control the board. True longs may have to address the bashers or they will appear to the newbies as being the people with all the information.

Lesson 4: BASHERS WILL LIE TO YOUR FACE. Never trust a basher. The truth on startup companies is that many mistakes are made and losses happen. The basher will try to make you believe all startup companies make a profit, release financials every quarter and all aspects of the business run smoothly. THIS IS NOT TRUE. THE BASHERS LIE TO YOU. Startup companies can go years without profits, financials and good business, this is the nature of the beast.

Lesson 5: The bashers know YOU CAN`T VERIFY THEIR STATEMENTS. That`s why they make the statements they do.

Lesson 6: The bashers PLAY ON YOUR LACK OF KNOWLEDGE. They can lie about information and you couldn`t know the difference (unless you have done your assessment of the company and know the truth and facts).

Lesson 7: Bashers play on your lack of patience. YOU have held a stock for a while. You knew it will be a big stock someday, but the BASHER CAN GET TO YOU BECAUSE YOU ARE TIRED OF WAITING FOR YOUR GAIN. That`s when the basher is best. You are tired. You have forgotten the goal for the stock was to hold it for one year. The basher is bothersome, so you dump it on a bad day. Some others also dump. Then you get mad for your loss and return to let everyone know how mad you are. Then you turn into a basher as well. THE BASHER HAS WON, AND GAINED A NEW PARTNER, TOO.

Lesson 8: BRING THE PRICE DOWN. That is the basher`s job. The truth is not important. Lies are the norm. Post continuously on the board every day. They are trying to hit the newbies visiting the board. They are trying to wear out the longs on the board. They do whatever it takes to wear the longs out.

Lesson 9: BASHERS WILL TRY TO CREATE DOUBT AND GET YOU TO RESEARCH ITEMS THAT THEY KNOW WILL LEAD TO THE CREATION OF DOUBT IN YOU AND IN OTHER STOCKHOLDERS. A typical trick of an advanced basher is to propose that there is a potential "problem" because "we" don`t have the facts on a particular subject. The basher dares someone in the group to find out the answer to the question. The basher already knows the answer; the basher already knows what will be found. The power of this tactic is that the basher is now in control of the actions of the stockholders; the basher has you, the stockholder doing HIS/HER due diligence and when you, the stockholder come back to the group with a questionable finding then the basher gains credibility. What to do??? Solution??? Well, I think it`s important to find answers but on your own terms. I actually pick up the phone and call the company and talk to the investor relations person or the CEO until I get a satisfactory answer. The problem here is that the advanced basher has you doing his bidding and his work; you have essentially joined his ranks. So, develop your own little Due Diligence package and answer questions by placing the information into the package and referring all new investors to read the answers to questions raised in the Investor Information package but DON`T GET INTO A CONVERSATION WITH THE BASHER REGARDING THE TOPIC. THAT IS WHERE YOU LOSE. DON`T CONVERSE WITH THE BASHER; ANSWER INDIRECTLY; DON`T USE THE BASHERS NAME; DON`T GET INTO A PERSONALITY CONTEST.



A BASHERS HANDBOOK: Know the enemy who wishes to steal your money!

Do not underestimate a bashers influence on a stock. The Pro`s are good at what they do and what they do is profit from your losses. Below is their "hand-book" so to speak. Learn from it or donate your money to those who make an organized plan to steal your money!

BASHERS DO THE FOLLOWING:

1. Be anonymous

2. Use 10% fact. 90% suggestion. The facts will lend credibility to your suggestions.

3. Let others help you learn about the stock. Build rapport and a support base before initiating your bashing routine.

4. Enter w/ humor and reply to all who reply to you.

5. Use multiple ISP`s, handles and aliases.

6. Use two (2) or more aliases to simulate a discussion.

7. Do not start with an all out slam of the stock. Build to it.

8. Identify your foes (hypsters) and the boards "guru" Use them to your advantage. Lead them do not follow their lead.

9. Only bash until the tide/momentum turns. Let doubt carry it the rest of the way.

10. Give the appearance of being open minded.

11. Be bold in your statements. People follow strength.

12. Write headlines in caps with catchy statements.

13. Pour it on as your position gains momentum. Not your personality.

14. Don`t worry about being labeled a "basher". Newbies won`t know your history.

15. When identified put up a brief fight, then back off. Return in an hour unless your foe is a weak in reasoning powers.

16. Your goal is to limit the momentum of the run. Not to tank the company or create a plunge in the stock; be subtle and consistent.

17. Kill the dreams of profits, not the company or the stock.

18. Use questions to create critical thinking. Statements to reinforce facts.

19. DO NOT LIE, DO NOT NAME CALL and DO NOT USE PROFANITY.

20. Encourage people to call the company. 99% won`t. They`ll take your word for claims made. If they do call you can always find something that is inaccurate in how they report their findings.

21. Discourage people for taking the companies word for anything. Encourage them to call the company. They won`t out of laziness.

22. If the companies history/PR`s are negative constantly point to that. Compile a list of this data prior to beginning your efforts.

23. If the price rises blame it on the hype or the PR, temporary mass reaction, the market, etc. Anything but the stock itself.

24. If other posters share your concerns, play on that and share theirs too.

25. Always cite low volume, even when it`s not.

26. Three or four aliases can dominate a board and wear down the longs.

27. Bait the hypsters into personal debates putting their focus/efforts on you and not the stock or facts. Divert thier attention from facts. Show them the facts from a "different angle."

28. Promote other stocks that would-be investors can turn to instead of the one your bashing.

30. Do not fall for challenges on the "values" of what you are doing, it`s a game and you are playing it with your own rules.

GRADE YOUR FAVORITE BASHER:

Advanced Basher:

Will join the message board early and actually "pump" the stock with positives; this basher is very intelligent, has the facts of the company, actually helps longs with Due Diligence and generally gets the confidence of the stockholders. Then, when the stock hits their price, the tone will change and they will start asking longs to check into this and check into that. The seeds of doubt are being planted. This basher will then start using all the tactics listed on this page to create seeds of doubt. ALWAYS LOOK AT THE PROFILE OF A PERSON YOU SUSPECT. ASK WHAT STOCKS THEY`VE "SUPPORTED" IN THE PAST AND CHECK OUT THE MESSAGE BOARD. An honest person will have a positive track record that can be followed. I strongly believe that a contrarian view is needed but this person is out to steal your money and does it by deception and creates fear after gaining confidence! BEWARE, this is the most clever basher and the hardest to spot.

Grade A Basher:

Posts lots of old news, responds to all positive posts with a negative side. Never responds to being called a basher, never posts on another board. Can spend up to 80 hours a week bashing a stock.

Grade B Basher:

Very good way with words, always claims to be your "friend" taking the positive poster into confidence, never posts on another board, spends about 60 hours a week.

Grade C Basher:

Spends less time than the others but is somewhat effective and gets a C grade due to getting excited when bashers rules say not to get excited, spends about 40 hours a week.

Grade D Basher:

Needs to learn the basics about being convincing when making a negative statement. Spends a good amount of time working the stock, maybe 20 hours a week.

Grade F Basher:

A complete idiot, most readers are not convinced he knows anything about stocks in general. The type that says a stock "sucks", but gives no rationale, shows up every so often but no regular schedule.

WHY BASH?: MONEY (the usual reason), SPORT, ENTERTAINMENT. Some bashers are compelled to bash because they are inherently a part of the dark side of life so they must do it. It`s a sad fact but never the less, a fact. It`s life so you must learn how to deal with it or become a victim!



LEARN ABOUT HOW BASHERS WORK: how they are paid: (this was written by a basher)

I know the following from a "friend" who needed extra money. I never answer a basher directly because I then become a basher`s little money machine.

IGNORE THEM FOLKS...how bashers are paid:

When you REPLY to bashers you give them an opportunity to earn 5-7 bucks. The service agreement they enter into with their employer states their messages will be monitored for content, profanity, lies, etc. but Money Manager`s and the like don`t have the time to check all their bashers messages. Only occasional spot checks are done. Those who manage the basher will generally read the headlines to see if a basher is replying to other posters by name. That tells them the basher isn`t just "posting blindly" or repeating the same message over and over since they won`t pay for those. A basher will

attempt to milk three to five replies per post at one to two dollars each. This way the basher spreads negitive influence to as many stockholders as possible. A basher will create this discussion thread because it takes less time reading more messages than is necessary. This ultimately allows the basher more time to post and make money. In general, NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER. Make them read all the posts and think up ways to enter the discussion.

NEVER ENGAGE A BASHER; if you do so then YOU BECOME THE BASHER`S AID!

Read the news ,do your own homework and make your own decisions. Get real time quotes and follow the stock for a couple of weeks. Due Diligence is key here. Know that there will be a time when the stock runs up which will be followed by the Bashers and those that missed the boat. The bashers will trash the stock by saying such things as "it`s a Pump and Dump" and "the company is lying" and deceiving. There goal is to scare off newbies and potential new investors by "shaking" you out of your shares. Take the time to confirm your DD ,trust your own judgement and believe in yourself, pick your point of return or loss and live with it. Don`t listen to hype or bashers trust your own judgement. Live by the rules you have created



DISCLOSURE: some of the above is borrowed from other posters on the Internet; also, I may have added newer information and opinions to some of the information in order to better inform new investors. The intent is to educate and inform =============== many thanks.



BASHER TESTIMONIAL and APOLOGY: found on Internet: 03/23/2000

"I would just like to confirm that it is true, there are companies that pay to have people post negatively on stock message boards. It is more in the area of $20-$25 per post for top performers though. How do I know? I was one. And I got bonuses when my company made exceptional gains. And it`s 100% legal!

The fact is that there are so many green daytraders out there that look to these boards for advice and twice as many scammers that....well.....get the point?

My advice is to listen to people that rarly post but do sound intelligent (the ones that post negative stuff all the time are trying to manipulate the market and are probably paid to do it). And most importantly! Read News Releases! and research their impact on that stock.

I am only posting this to try to rid myself of the guilt I feel for manipulating so many.

I`m sorry. "

[Chrisy]

Das sich bei Metabox die meißten Pusher ist mir auch schon aufgefallen. Scheinbar ist es so, daß die dümmsten auch die gierigsten sind.
Aber einen realistischen Thread (Eingangsposting) habe ich auch dort gefunden, den von findus1. Allerdings sind die Reaktionen der Metaboxler auch dort einfach nur dumm und primitiv.

[Walter Burns]

Na, Chrisy. Du bist doch der Wolf im Schafspelz

[tali]

@ alle ...und besonders für ein missratenes gürkchen das man öffentlich lügner nennen darf....

ich verstehe ja von technik nix - hab aber glaube ich ahnung von aktien...
...die antwort auf alles ist doch sssssoooooo einfach...
(warum machen wir deutschen das eigentlich immer komlizierter als andere..???)
...unsicherheit = volatilität = zocker = unsicherheit = ...

werden auf dem amerikanischen sektor jeden tag ca. 40.000 boxen verkauft und angeschlossen - JA !!! (SFA)
landen diese boxen auf dem müll oder im keller - WOHL NICHT !!!
ist die aktie der SFA seit februar von ca. 20 auf ca. 100 dollar hochgerauscht - JA !!!
unterscheiden wir chipsfressenden deutschen uns von den chips fressenden amerikanern in punkto bequemlichkeit - WOHL KAUM
!!!
hat ein anderer hersteller die nase so weit vorne im wind wie met@box ? - NEIN !!! (wer auch...???)
besteht die möglichkeit dass die box in amerika zum schlager wird in europa aber nicht ? - NEIN !!! (alles "gute" kam von drieben
nich...???)
ergo................
scheiss auf das ganze technikgelabere von leuten wie FINDUS...FRONT...usw....über BOT - oder nicht...oder doch...oder...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
...die frage WER ausser met@box und WARUM die box hier in europa nix werden sollte hat er mir leider nicht beantwortet...
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
...und das ist die einzigste frage um die es nämlich geht...ob die aktie steigt oder nicht...alles andere interressiert mich einen
dreck....
tali...............

[tali]

hallo walter burns...
wenn ein (mensch...?) namens crissy mich als dumm und primitiv hinstellt nur weil ich metaboxaktien besitze...
dann ist das kein wolf im... dann ist das noch nicht mal ein wölflein...das wäre schon zu viel der ehre...
dann unterschätzt der mich ganz einfach...und andere zu unterschätzen ...hat man schon den ersten groben
fehler gemacht...tali...

[meistergurkus]

@goodluck,
danke für deine Zustimmung.

@chrisy,
Gier frisst Hirn, das ist der Grund

@tali,
du gehörst zu 100% zu den 74%, jedoch wäre es nicht erforderlich gewesen uns dies mit deinem Posting erneut zu demonstrieren.
Denn es geht hier nicht um MBX, sondern grundsätzlich um übertriebenen Zweckoptimismus.

[Andi Sonnenschein]

@ ``hilfsschüler``gurkus

IVS, Langzeitstudie... hahahaha

Gute Basher lügen nicht so offensichtlich wie Du. Du mußt noch SEHR viel lernen. Wie`s richtig geht, kannst Du ja weiter oben lesen.

Also, Kopf hoch, ID wechseln und neuer Versuch. Das wird schon... Noch viel Spaß mit Met@box!

[tali]

gürkchen
...dich zähle ich nicht zu den gefährlichen, da minderbemittelt - genauso wie chrissy und konsorten...
ganz leicht zu durchdringen...und höchstens einen spass wert...mehr nicht...
anders sieht es da schon bei findus oder event. noch front aus - wesentlich subtiler mein junge und
besser aufgebaut...da müsstest du aber noch viel suppe essen um ein guter basher zu werden...
im übrigen kannst du mich durchleuchten...ich habe noch nie jemand geraten eine aktie... zu kaufen -
halten oder zu verkaufen...
ich habe halt nur was gegen sinnlosigkeit in person...so wie dich...tali...

[meistergurkus]

Wie sich herausgestellt hat ist dieser Thread eine sehr erfolgreiche Pusherfalle. Denn gerade die fühlen sich angegriffen und versuchen sich nun zu verteidigen. So einfach kann es sein, die Minderbemittelten zu überrumpeln

Wer behauptet das ich lüge, möge dies bitte beweisen.
Ich bitte aber auch hier zwischen "nicht mit der Meute pushen" und "lügen" zu differenzieren.
Spätestens bei dem Versuch werden auch die dümmsten Pusher erkennen das sie sich wieder in eine aussichtslose Situation begeben haben und werden keine Beweise vorzeigen können.

[fischtown]

@ meistergurke

[switch]

hähähä, geiler Trick meistergurkus
Pusher gehören an die Wand gestellt !!!
Wäre auch schon fast mal auf diese Brut draufreingefallen, aber die eigene Recherche ist halt zwingend notwendig und hat mir die Augen geöffnet.
Danke für diesen Beitrag, hoffentlich wird er auch beachtet.

[Markus10]

Eine Behauptung gillt so lange als falsch, bis sie(nachvollziehbar und nachprüfbar) bewiesen/ begründet werden kann.So fällt man auf keinen pusher rein

[meistergurkus]

@Mr. Sunshine,

MET@BOX - Kursziel 1.000,- EUR... nach dem Split! 24 Andi Sonnenschein 17.07.00 23:20:15

Wer lügt denn nun ?

[fordprefect]

Andi Sonnenschein ist mir sehr gut als Pusher im S.A.G. board
bekannt. dort versucht er ständig S.A.G. zu bashen und Solon
zu pushen.