Commerce One u. das Kartellrecht - 500 Beiträge pro Seite

[schneekatze]

Ich möchte hier von anderen Aktionären mehr über die Auflagen bezüglich der Plattformen wissen.
Bitte nur sachliche Beiträge, die allen weiterhelfen.

[Green_Ninja]

Hallo schneekatze

es gibt keine auflagen ...jedenfalls noch nicht .
das problem ist ,dass die megaplattformen von C1 für die FTC und EU
noch absolutes neuland sind .es wird geprüft ob über die plattformen
zb: preisabsprachen ,unerlaubte einsicht in angebote ,wettbewerbsverzerrungen ...usw möglichen oder über dritte ermöglicht werden könnten .
diese behörden prüfen das system und wenn sie auflagen machen ,dann sehe ich das in erster linie als beratende funktion .denn mit der genehmigung sind regeln eingehalten worden die auch gut für C1 sind .

Stell dir vor eine plattform von C1 ist nicht ok und C1 wird auf millarden schadensersatz verklagt .......

am montag soll übrigens die EU kommission eine entscheidung bekannt geben.

also ich bin zuversichtlich !!

CU und schönes weekend GREEN

[BMW-Fan]

Hallo GreenNinja!

Gute Information! Aber ich kapier`s einfach nicht. Bedeutet das, daß die FTC u. die EU die C1 u. a. Firmen
lustig an ihren Megaplattformen haben werkeln lassen. Dann haben sie plötzlich bemerkt, daß sich hier
C1 o. a. geschäftliche Vorteile verschaffen könnten u. nun gingen sie erst daran, die rechtliche Sache durch-
zuarbeiten. Da bin ich aber schon der Meinung, daß C1 hier schwer benachteiligt ist. Sie haben
doch die größten Plattformen. ARBA arbeitet mit lizenzierter Software u. soweit ich informiert bin, kann man
die Plattformen von VerticalNet nicht mit denen von C1 vergleichen. Außerdem laufen die Plattformen von
VERT schon alle. Ich fürchte nichts besser als Bürokraten u. die sind hier offensichtlich am Ausarbeiten
von Auflagen u. am beraten. Na das kann ja was werden.

Tschüs

[Green_Ninja]

tja ,so sind sie nunmal unsere bürokraten .
da machste nix !!

nein ,die plattformen von C1 sind größer und wirklich weltumspannend
wie eben die mit der autoindustrie .allein an der plattform der Flugzeugbauer sollen sich bis zu 37000 firmen anschliessen !!!!
stell dir das mal vor was da abgeht .das ist gigantisch!!

da muss schon alles niet-und nagelfest sein und die genehmigung von
ftc und eu ist sowas wie der segen vom papst persönlich .

CU Green

[BMW-Fan]

Hi, GreenNinja!
Diese Wort wirken aber sehr beruhigend auf mein Gemüt u. sie helfen mir dabei, wieder an Kurse über 40 E
zu glauben. Oft ist es aber schon so: je mehr man liest u. hört, desto unsicherer wird man.
Du wirst lachen, ich bin eigentlich ein sehr optimistisch durchs Leben wandernder Zeitgenosse, aber diese
"Schei..-B2B-Aktie" schafft es noch, mich ins Bärenlager zu treiben. Bin mir aber ganz sicher, daß ich nicht
der einzige bin, dem es so geht. Habe mich schon informiert, bevor ich diese Dinger gekauft habe, aber hier
im Board tummeln sich ja Experten, da kann man nur noch staunen. Da kriegst ja fast Komplexe!
So und jetzt gehe ich zurück ins Lager der Gläubigen u. glaube für Montag an den bürokratischen Segen.

Danke u. Servus

[erki]

Gehört zwar nicht hierrein, kann aber trotzdem jemand das mal grob ins Deutsche übersetzen? Hab da so meine Befürchtung, dass das mit der Convisint-Plattform so schnell nix wird, wenn überhaupt...

COVISINT`S ROUGH ROAD -- The automobile industry`s
ambitious online exchange faces big challenges


FRIDAY, AUGUST 04, 2000 11:51 PM
- CMP Media

Aug. 04, 2000 (InformationWeek - CMP via COMTEX) -- The wheels
are turning fast now at online auto-industry exchange Covisint. With
its projected launch only weeks away, sleep-deprived software
developers and testers at its Southfield, Mich., headquarters are
working out the last-minute kinks in an assembly-line process Henry
Ford would have envied-one that ultimately will stretch not just from
chassis to finished automobile but from the supplier of the coolant
temperature sensor all the way to the dealer showroom.

Times have certainly changed since car buyers could order a Model T
in any color they liked-as long as it was black. If Covisint lives up to
its promise, auto manufacturers someday will have in place a system
that will let consumers custom-configure a car-from engine size to
upholstery color-and drive it home a week after placing their order.
Engine and chassis supplier Dana Corp., which last month signed a
letter of intent to use Covisint as its primary exchange, is eager for the
supply-chain offerings Covisint will bring to market one day. "GM says
that when somebody in a dealership orders a car with leather seats,
the cow should wince," says Doug Grimm, director of global strategic
sourcing for Dana, in Toledo, Ohio. "We want that type of
communication from dealer back through the chain all the way down
to the steel supplier that makes the steel bars that go into the forging
that goes into the gear that goes into the power train."

The exchange is backed by five of the world`s leading carmakers and
someday is expected to encompass nearly 40,000 parts suppliers.
Covisint`s goal to to save billions of dollars for both parties through
real-time planning efficiencies; it may eventually serve as the model for
other large business-to-business exchanges around the globe. But
current reality is something different, says Joshua Greenbaum, a
principal analyst at Enterprise Applications Consulting. "We`re in
Covisint hell right now," Greenbaum says. Only 12 of the 40 most
important suppliers have signed on with Covisint, and many top-level
suppliers are building private exchanges while talking about a
suppliers-operated marketplace that will provide real-time visibility into
their supply chains, he says. Tens of thousands of lower-tier suppliers
have no idea what`s happening with Covisint, and technology vendors
working on the exchange still don`t see a cohesive strategy,
Greenbaum adds.

Alice Miles, Covisint`s interim co-CEO, says that attitude ignores the
scale of the operation. "We`re trying to focus on suppliers that are
representative of the full supply chain," she says, and Covisint is
negotiating with dozens of partners. Covisint`s long-term goal is to sign
up as many as 8,000 of the largest suppliers and let them involve their
own lower-tier suppliers-of which there are more than 30,000-in the
chain.

Despite Covisint`s problems, the concentrated buying power of the
automakers will make it easier for them to build the first giant Internet
exchange than it would be for other industries, says Charles Phillips,
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter`s managing director. Phillips is credited
with initiating the meetings between Ford Motor Co. and General
Motors Corp., which had been planning private exchanges, that
resulted in the birth of Covisint five months ago. Ford and GM recruited
DaimlerChrysler AG and the three unveiled the exchange just weeks
after the idea was presented to them.

GM and Ford estimate they`ll save billions of the $250 billion they
spend annually for direct purchasing of raw materials and
pre-assembled components. The automakers also say Covisint will
one day save between $1,200 and $3,000 on the production of each
car, with about half the savings going to suppliers, which will be linked
to real-time sales information and production schedules instead of
quarterly projections, weekly estimates, and daily updates via
electronic data interchange. All this is expected to lead to a true
just-in-time manufacturing model that will eliminate the need for
inventory stockpiling.

Just as important, the exchange could cut months from pre-production
planning and do away with paperwork associated with car design.
Engineers and designers at the suppliers` and manufacturers` sites will
collaborate over the Internet on the creation of an automobile.
Mock-ups built using real-time 3-D design collaboration tools will take
the place of mock-ups built in clay and steel. This will compress the
time to bring a car into production from 48 months to 12.

Covisint executives say the system they`re putting in place will do
more than serve as a model for exchanges-they`d like to host other
industries that may be interested in using the Covisint platform to
support their multitier supply-chain transactions. "Companies are
beginning to see technology as a way of doing business instead of
just a cost of doing business," Phillips says.

By bringing in new industries and charging transaction fees, the
exchange might be worth $50 to $60 billion on the stock market,
according to some estimates, when it`s spun off as a separate
company sometime in the next few years. All of the participating
automakers, which now also include Renault S.A. and Nissan Motor
Co., and the exchange`s two software partners, Oracle and Commerce
One Inc., are taking an equity stake in Covisint.

Covisint`s name is shorthand for connectivity, collaboration, visibility
throughout the supply chain, and international scope-in other words,
all the goals of any business-to-business exchange. Despite its grand
ambitions, Covisint hasn`t attracted all the major car companies to its
side. BMW and Volkswagen AG are planning their own exchanges,
and Toyota Motor Corp., though considering Covisint, is also building
an exchange for replacement parts suppliers.

Additionally, the auto manufacturers have yet to name the supply
chain, logistics, or fulfillment applications that will power Covisint, not
to mention a permanent CEO (see story, p. 48). And though the
exchange hasn`t hosted a single transaction, both the Federal Trade
Commission and the European Union have begun investigating the
possibility of anticompetitive trade practices (see story, p. 46).

Covisint already missed its first go-live date in May, a delay industry
observers blame on the FTC investigation, turf wars among the
software partners, and infighting among the auto companies. Also, the
capabilities expected to be available to manufacturers and suppliers in
the fall launch will be limited. They can be termed "version 1.0," with
the same limitations as any version one, says Peter Weiss, a
DaimlerChrysler executive who, along with Ford`s Miles, was tapped to
act as one of three interim co-CEOs in charge of the exchange.
Weiss, responsible for Covisint`s technology, and Miles shared the
slot with GM`s Alan Turfe, who was responsible for the exchange`s
business plan. But last month, Turfe left to take the CEO job at a
metals exchange startup-and the move leaves some analysts
questioning whether Covisint`s first release will be delayed further.

Covisint denies Turfe`s departure will delay its launch, and says it will
have the technology in place to enable different tiers of suppliers to
share information one-to-one. But Weiss says initially there won`t be
transparent, real-time, two-way supply-chain connections between the
auto companies and all tiers of suppliers, so most supply-chain
operations will continue to rely on older methods of communication,
including EDI, fax, and phone.

Essentially, that means there`s no new technology in Covisint`s first
offering, says Gartner Group analyst Karen Peterson. While Covisint
won`t specify the software it`s using, the features in version 1.0 match
those in products Commerce One and Oracle have been selling for
months. Analyst Greenbaum adds that Covisint`s first-generation
offering is a disappointment because newer software ex-ists from
these vendors that would immediately provide realtime supply-chain
management capabilities more like those promised by Covisint-and
Covisint won`t say when it will ramp up to the next level of capabilities.

But even version 1.0`s one-to-one supply-chain tools will help solve
problems for Lear Corp., says Lear vice chairman Jim Vandenberghe.
The Southfield, Mich., company, one of the world`s largest
manufacturers of auto interiors, joined Covisint early. Many of Lear`s
facilities around the world were acquired in the past four years, and
their IT systems don`t always communicate; using phone, fax, and
mail to exchange data between supply-chain tiers leads to mistakes
and slow response times. Vandenberghe says Covisint is a key part of
the company`s strategy to integrate its operations around the world.
"There`s no way on our own to get the same kind of efficiency that an
exchange like Covisint offers for our supply base," he says.

Most suppliers agree they can wait for the full-blown Covisint
offering-they had more pressing concerns about the auto companies
being the only ones to set the rules for the exchange. Auto-parts
maker Delphi Automotive Systems Corp. signed a letter of intent to
join Covisint in June, more than three months after the exchange was
unveiled, says Rick Radecki, director of E-business. Delphi knows
firsthand the cost and complexity of installing private EDI systems and
other proprietary IT initiatives for auto companies, and welcomed the
idea of a single exchange based on Internet standards. So did many
smaller suppliers who couldn`t afford EDI systems, says Weiss, who
adds that only 30% to 40% of auto suppliers today use EDI-most of
them tier-one suppliers.

Still, Delphi, in Troy, Mich., was concerned about the vagueness of
Covisint`s plans when they were announced, Radecki says. Delphi
didn`t sign on until the auto consortium formed the Customer Advisory
Council, a suppliers group with input into the way the exchange is run,
and held a Memorial Day conference to explain its vision. "They
assured us there would be more neutrality in the future, and we
became a lot more comfortable with the idea," Radecki says.

Dana was also in no hurry to join Covisint until it became clearer that
the exchange`s goals were a good fit with its own. With technology
partners Ariba Inc. and i2 Technologies Corp., Dana has been building
its own exchange to do business with its suppliers. Grimm says
Dana`s supply-chain software will link all tiers of the company`s supply
chain in real time and let it and its suppliers link to other exchanges.
Grimm needed to be sure Covisint`s architecture would be open
enough to let his company continue to exploit its own exchange;
Covisint assured him it would, and Dana has agreed to use Covisint as
its primary interface to the automakers. "As Covisint gets into more
advanced supply-chain products, we`ll take advantage of what they
offer," Grimm says.

While suppliers may feel better about Covisint`s direction, the same
can`t be said for the exchange`s software partners. Tensions between
Oracle, Ford`s teammate in its AutoXchange marketplace, and
Commerce One, GM`s sidekick in its TradeXchange venture, are said
to be high. AutoXchange and TradeXchange are still operating, but
eventually are to be rolled into Covisint.

In June, SAP-DaimlerChrysler`s long-time supply-chain
software-development partner-invested between $250 million and $400
million to increase its equity stake in Commerce One. The two
companies are making a joint effort to go after Covisint`s supply-chain
management, fulfillment, and logistics applications business-the
engines that will drive the exchange beyond version 1.0. Oracle is
aiming at the same target. But Covisint officials were so interested in
what SAP could bring to the table that they jumped on a plane to Las
Vegas when SAP disclosed the investment in Commerce One and
met with executives from both companies. The software selection
process continues.

Analysts Greenbaum and Peterson say the worst problem is that
Covisint officials haven`t stated which of the software vendors will
provide which parts of the technology for the evolving marketplace.
"Covisint is just not making decisions on applications, and the
bitterness among the software companies won`t quiet down until they
do," Greenbaum says. Weiss acknowledges there have been
conflicts, but says they`re often resolved by having the software
companies lay out the features of their products side-by-side to see
which would work best in "the Covisint vision." Weiss declined to say
when Covisint would reveal its technology decisions.

For its part, Oracle denies having problems with Commerce One; it
won`t comment on SAP`s involvement. SAP and Commerce One
declined to discuss their relationships with Covisint and Oracle.

Meanwhile, Covisint is struggling with the mechanics of making seven
groups of people-teams from each of the five auto companies and the
two software vendors-work as a team. The Big Three automakers
assigned about 100 of their executives, including the three co-CEOs
responsible for different operations, and technology experts to
Covisint. The other two automakers, Oracle, Commerce One, and
various consulting firms brought in another 100 people. Miles, whose
responsibilities include sales, marketing, and customer issues, says
each of the teams brought its own ideas on how the exchange should
be built-ideas that often clashed.

Miles had been the lead executive responsible for Ford`s Oracle-based
AutoXchange; Weiss worked for DaimlerChrysler in Europe, in charge
of a team planning an SAP-based exchange. Neither was prepared for
the difficulty of moving from a group where everyone had the same
goals to Covisint`s more conflicted environment.

With Covisint`s success dependent on getting the teams to work
together, Weiss introduced change-management techniques to help
managers and workers deal with problems. Miles says this is helping
everybody work together better, but analysts tell a different story.
Greenbaum says there continues to be bitter infighting among the
auto companies about how the exchange is to be built. "Everyone I`ve
talked to about this accompanies their comments with a rolling of the
eyes or a throwing up of the hands," he says.

As Covisint managers struggle to get to know each other, the FTC
wants to know a little more about Covisint and B-to-B exchanges in
general. The FTC began an investigation in March and at the end of
June held a public workshop on B-to-B competition policy. FTC
commissioner Mozelle Thompson says FTC commissioners needed
to learn the basics about online B-to-B operations to help determine
whether they should issue guidelines for such exchanges.

While declining to comment specifically on Covisint, Thompson says
it`s important to look into the issue of regulating electronic exchanges
because it`s possible that anti-competitive behavior, price fixing, and
collusion may be easier in the Internet world than offline. Miles says
Covisint has assured the FTC that there will be no group buying in
markets where the auto companies might exert enough force to
control prices; that any supplier whose product passes the industry`s
rigorous quality-assurance processes will be able to do business on
the exchange; and that it won`t stand in the way of suppliers
participating in other exchanges. The September go-live date for
Covisint hinges on FTC approval.

Covisint`s promises should comfort suppliers. "Trust is imperative,"
Dana`s Grimm says. "Given that Covisint is owned by the auto
companies, it needs to demonstrate that everyone can use the
exchange and that it will be a secure environment for companies to do
business privately."

Others are less optimistic. In analyst Peterson`s opinion, Covisint`s
external problems with the FTC and internal conflicts among its
software vendors and the automakers raise questions about whether it
will ever meet its ambitious goal to be the real-time supply exchange
for the auto industry.

The Upshot

Covisint may represent the future of B-to-B marketplaces-if it can
tackle its problems:

-Backed by five leading car companies, Covisint is expected to
encompass 38,000 parts suppliers

-So far, only 12 leading tier-one suppliers have signed on, and Covisint
has yet to name its supply-chain, logistics, and fulfillment apps

-The exchange is also up against FTC investigations and reported
infighting among partners

http://www.iweek.com/

By: Steve Konicki Copyright 2000 CMP Media Inc.



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[Marcus B]

Weiß irdgendjemand wann am Montag die Entscheidung kommt?